Bessie Hassan on translating information into action at Finder

Bessie Hassan, Global Head of Communications at Finder, sits down with Mark Jones to discuss the power of strong partnerships, building trust and credibility and making an empowering impact.

As marketers, one of our biggest challenges is moving consumers from a stage of contemplation to a stage of conversion.   

When you're a brand that people trust, that move is logical. So how do you build that trust and credibility and create sustained engagement with your brand?

According to Bessie Hassan, Global Head of Communications at Finder, strong media partnerships, in combination with independent research and data are a way for consumers to connect with your brand and use it as a reference point.  

This combination leads to growth - for organisations, but also in the lives of consumers.  

“Finder exists to help people make better decisions. Even if that is educating and informing and not ever having them go ahead and buy a product, that's completely fine. We want to be improving financial literacy and helping people to become more confident with their money and how they spend it and how they save it,” Bessie says.

Finder is an Australian finance comparison site. Its mission is not to curate the finance market but to explore how different services can enable purposeful lives for their users.  

For Bessie and her team, this means closing knowledge gaps and inspiring action. 

“In journalism, you might tell a story because it's interesting. But in PR, I try to connect an element of impact to it, so what do I want someone to read and then go and do? That connects directly with our mission. We want them to then jump on the site and read a free report or to take out that product that they've been thinking about or to consider investing for the first time,” Bessie says.  

“It's really about getting to the bottom of what people want to do, understanding what their fears or hesitancies might be, and then trying to close those loops and those knowledge gaps in a really relatable, accessible way.” 

Tune in to find out why finance matters secretly drive our days, how to translate info into action, and whether Mark Jones can sing a tuneful jingle. 

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The CMO Show production team 

Producers – Candice Witton & Charlotte Woodford 

Audio Engineers – Ed Cheng & Daniel Marr  

Got an idea for an upcoming episode or want to be a guest on The CMO Show? We’d love to hear from you: cmoshow@impactinstitute.com.au. 

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Participants:
Host: Mark Jones 

Guest: Bessie Hassan 

As marketers, one of our biggest challenges is moving consumers from a stage of contemplation to a stage of conversion.

When you're a brand that people trust, that move is logical. 

How do you build that trust and credibility and create sustained engagement with your brand?   

 Strong media partnerships, in combination with independent research and data are a way that consumers can connect with your brand and use it as a reference point.  

 It can lead not only to growth and increased revenue but can also help consumers lead better lives. 

Hello friends! Mark Jones here. So great to have you join us on another episode of The CMO Show.

Today on the show we've got a great conversation for you. It's something different from our usual conversations here on The CMO Show, as we're speaking with someone in the PR and Comms space.

We're talking to Bessie Hassan, Global Head of Communications at Finder.  

Finder.com.au is Australia's most visited comparison website - you'll know the jingle - and in her role, Bessie looks after communications as they grow and expand, opening offices in the US, Poland, Canada, the Philippines and more. 

A former journalist, Bessie and I had a lot to connect on about how storytelling can help organisations grow.

In our conversation, we spoke about how media partnerships foster brand awareness, and the power of research and data in creating brand trust.

Let's go to my conversation with Bessie Hassan. 

Mark Jones: 

Our very special guest today is Bessie Hassan. She's global head of communications at Finder. Welcome to the podcast. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Thank you so much for having me, Mark. 

 Mark Jones: 

Now, I've enjoyed watching the growth of Finder for many, many years now. Independently-owned, Australian-founded comparison site, started out what seems like in the early days of the internet. Just give us a very quick overview of what it is, what it does and how big it's become. 

Bessie Hassan: 

We started off as a credit card blog about 15 years ago now, and that's evolved into Australia's most visited comparison website. We've got more than a hundred different verticals comparing everything from credit cards to more recently, cryptocurrency. What we really do is try to help our consumers find better deals and switch to save. That said, today, we are much more than just a comparison site. About 18 months ago, we launched the Finder app and we are increasingly trying to help people make money as well as save money. We do that all across the globe. We're now in over 80 countries, we've got 9 offices, 500 staff plus and growing every day, and we help more than 6 million people every single month. As well as helping them save money, we're educating and we're teaching them how to take the complicated and make it simple.  

Bessie Hassan: 

I'm the global head of communications at Finder and I've been there for almost seven years now. I joined the company as a PR manager and then was quickly promoted through the ranks and have an awesome team who I work alongside to really share the Finder story. We're homegrown, three co-founders, independently owned, and we really help the everyday Aussie understand finances. I think through the last couple of years through the pandemic, there's been a real opportunity to show people that it's cool to be savvy with your money. In fact, you need to be. You need to be smart with your money and you need to save money where you can and you need to make more money as well if that's what you want to do. If your goal is to buy a caravan and travel around Australia, or if it's to get onto the property ladder, whatever it is, Finder can help you do that. What I try to do is really amplify that message and that story and relate to the everyday Australian and tell them what we do and how we can help them.  

Bessie Hassan: 

We have thousands of free guides on the site. We have useful tools, things like calculators that people can input their data into to see how much they can borrow, for example. What we try to do is make finance really accessible and easy to understand. We'd like to think of ourselves as the older cousin that you have who answers all your questions and who you look up to a little bit, but they're still really accessible and someone who you can turn to when you need to know something new. 

Mark Jones: 

I'm interested to understand how you are supporting the growth of the business. One of the great things actually, by the way, about your background of course, is in journalism and media. You and I have that in common. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yes. 

Mark Jones: 

Yeah, you've brought your storytelling through into helping the organisation grow. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Well, I can tell you, Mark, when I landed my first job back in magazines about 18 years ago now, I could never foresee ever landing in communications at a fin tech. I knew nothing about finance when I was given this opportunity seven years ago. But I think in hindsight that has been a real blessing because I approach finance and money as an everyday person and not really as a know-it-all or as an expert. I think I have learned a lot in that time, but the beauty of it is that I can see it through the eyes of the everyday person. So when we're brainstorming or we're having meetings about launches, I intrinsically know what is going to resonate with the everyday person and I try to bring that storytelling through our comms. 

Bessie Hassan: 

I do that really by focusing on the benefit and the what's in it for them, why should they care? I think a lot of the time in business, you can get caught up in terms like revenue and growth and things like that. But at the end of the day, it's all about helping our customers and helping them to lead more purposeful lives and seeing it through their eyes. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Naturally, at Finder, we are a very purpose-led and purpose-driven company. Our mission is to help people all around the world to make better financial decisions. It does make my job a little easier in that respect. We know that we're doing good and we're trying to do good. Yeah, the last couple of years have really highlighted that in importance of financial wellbeing. 

Mark Jones: 

I wanted to connect an idea that I think resonates from your time in journalism and really understanding people with how you provide those services and the mission that you speak about and the purpose. Because I was just looking through some of the publications that you used to work for back in the day, like Women's Health, Marie Claire, The Australian, City Morning Herald, Practical Parenting, House and Garden. Fantastic collection of publications. What's the sort of the rule that you used to bring to writing for those audiences? Not just the writing aspect of it in terms of like a technical skill, but really understanding what's relevant and how to connect with people today. What was some of the lessons that you learned from that, that have kind of carried through to now? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah. I think something that I still apply to this very day is impact. In journalism, you might tell a story because it's interesting. But in PR, I try to connect an element of impact to it, so what do I want someone to read and then go and do? That connects directly with our mission. We want them to then jump on the site and read a free report or to take out that product that they've been thinking about or to consider investing for the first time. So it's really about getting to the bottom of what people want to do, understanding what their fears or hesitancies might be, and then trying to close those loops and those knowledge gaps in a really relatable, accessible way. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Finance is really complex. We're seeing now with the cryptocurrency phase, there are the early adopters, but then there are people who are still very hesitant to jump on that. That is why we exist. We exist to help people make better decisions. Even if that is educating and informing and not ever having them go ahead and buy a product, that's completely fine. We want to be improving financial literacy and helping people to become more confident with their money and how they spend it and how they save it. 

Mark Jones: 

It's interesting where Finder sits within the classic marketing funnel. We won't go down the rabbit hole of whether or not the funnel still exists, but let's just work with the metaphor for the moment because what I'm really interested in is the comparison mindset, or as I think of it as the seek mindset. It's a very active mode. I'm comparing information, I'm looking for answers. You mentioned hesitancy. I think there's a stage that communications and marketing professionals think very carefully about. You've got the unique, positioning in which allows you to really own that space. So I'm interested in how you have thought about the sort of the psychology that goes into that and how you create value. 

Mark Jones: 

Now, this is probably the longest question in the universe, but what has driven me is seeing the development of research. I'm seeing you guys quoted all the time, congratulations, in the media. Finder researchers discovered something, something, something, right? And clearly you're using media to drive people back into that seek mode? You're using that to drive it.  

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah, absolutely. We are very big on data in the PR team at Finder. I'm personally very passionate about that gold mine of insights. About a couple years ago now, we actually launched the Consumer Sentiment Tracker, which every month we ask a thousand Australians for their views on just about everything. It acts as a bit of an economic pulse check. We ask about whether they believe now is a good time to buy property, we ask them about their happiness levels, how much they might have in savings, if they're comfortable in their job, that kind of thing, because we are really passionate about getting to know our customers and more broadly, Australians, and what's on their minds at the moment and how can we step in and solve any gaps and assist them with their educational needs. 

Bessie Hassan: 

With Finder, it is really interesting.  You talked a little bit about that funnel just a little earlier, and it is really interesting because at Finder, you get all sorts of customers. You might have someone who jumps on and who knows that they're there to take out a credit card, for example, but then you're also dealing with a lot of people who might not have that immediate need. With property, for example, you might be looking to break into the property market for several years before you do. We are very passionate about engaging those customers who are ready to engage in that moment, but also definitely the ones who we want to be there for in the longer term, whether it's six months away or in a couple of years. That is something that we do can keep very top of mind because we want to serve everybody. 

Mark Jones: 

One of the interesting things that I've noticed, and I'm going to use some other brands as a point of comparison, if you look at Canstar, which does a rating system for products and there's a similar sort of, I think, business model behind that. I compare that to CHOICE, which we've had on the show before and they're member-owned, and what they love to talk about is we have a different model it's member-based, et cetera. The point here is perceived credibility with the data and the recommendations that drive engagement in your brand. How have you been able to build up that trust and credibility with the media, to the point now where people are looking at your data, they're using it as a reference point, and it's sort of feeding that whole sustained interest in the brand that you refer to? 

Bessie Hassan: 

At Finder, we also have a Finder Awards programme, which we launched about six years ago. We started off with 12 innovation awards and it's now grown to be over 200 awards. We look at things like financial categories, but also perishables, the best milk, cetera. Why we do that is because we want to have a bit of a visual cue for our customers so that they are seeing TV ads for other brands, or when they're walking into a Harvey Norman and they see the Finder Awards sticker on a microwave, they can know that that is a good product as per the Finder recommendation. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Recently, we've also introduced something, a logo that we're calling Finder Verified, and we're working with brands who might want us to formally endorse their research or whatever it is that they're promoting. It goes through a comprehensive methodology with our insights team. Then if we give it the tick of approval, we're happy to put our name to that as a Finder Verified product. 

Bessie Hassan: 

I do want to call out that many awards programmes have a very different business model to ours. We do not charge for logo usage, whereas a lot of programmes are built on that.  

Mark Jones: 

That's the business model. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah, exactly, and for brands to want to use that logo in above the line, et cetera, they're often forking out tens of thousands of dollars to do so. But at Finder, you just can't pay for Finder logo. You are either the winner or the best in market or you are not.  

Bessie Hassan: 

It's gaining great momentum, as I said, over 200 categories and growing fast and it's become an always on programme as well. We've always got new categories popping out and we believe that being that visual cue is ultimately helping customers who might not have the time or the inclination to get into the nitty gritty. 

Mark Jones: 

Which from a marketing perspective, that's very much long term brand building as well. So you're investing in the brand. There's that marketing aspect of it being out in market, physically in store as well as all that coverage that you get and the, if you like, the amplification through all those channels. So it really does make a lot of sense. 

Mark Jones: 

How do you work with the marketing team in that context? Because obviously you've got, I think you said 10 people in your PR comms team. Then you've got that broader…you must be a huge team? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Globally there's over 500. There's at least two or 300 in Sydney alone. But we do work very closely with our marketing team, with our social team, and also our client services team on this one. We like to work as a bit of a crew on this one and invite people to partake in some of the awards. Some are by submission, many are actually not, so we will do the work behind the scenes and then call them and say, "Hey, you're a finalist," or, "You're a winner." We do that because we want to give the best to our customers and to the Australian audiences. You don't have to be a Finder brand to be a winner. We go as full market as we can across the majority of the categories, and that's because we want to set that objective tone and tell people what is truly best in market for them. 

Mark Jones: 

I just think that's fantastic. One of the things that I know many of our listeners and CMOs that we've interviewed really think about becoming a trusted brand. 

Mark Jones: 

That's kind of what I was getting at earlier, which is the sort of work that you and your team do are building that trust with the journalists, such that you then become quoted, referred to, the programmes or the awards and all the, you know, research, it all starts to become a trusted source of information. I think for many brands, that's a real nirvana state. Can you kind of maybe step us through very briefly what were the stages or the approach that you went through to kind of get there? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah. Look, I can tell you, it has absolutely evolved very much over the last seven years. When I started there, I was doing the elevator pitch with every phone call. No one really knew who we were at that point, which on one hand meant we had nothing to lose, so we could get quite creative. In those years, we have built up our reputation as a consumer brand. I think that is because we make finance accessible. We don't pretend to be anything that we're not. We've got over a hundred different verticals, various spokespeople, and we do have quite strong media relationships now. 

Mark Jones: 

Yeah, I think that's really great. And from your point of view, how are they responding? What are they looking for? How do they react to the research that you put out? Are they getting on the phone straight away? What's that dynamic like? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah, it's really interesting. Our consumer research is quite popular and that's where I mentioned the consumer sentiment tracker. Monthly, we are getting new data coming through across various different areas. We can actually work with journalists as well to design questions or topics or themes as well. 

Bessie Hassan: 

On top of the monthly survey, we have some one-offs and we also do some special reports. This year we did a first home buyers report, for example. We've done the cost of kids, the cost of love, all those sorts of things. It's really just keeping an ear to the ground and being a sponge, soaking up as much info as you can. I find personally, LinkedIn is a great source for trends and what's topical. Then often the best content ideas come from barbecue conversations as well, or just from brainstorming in the office. We can then come up with 20 questions for our next survey, which we'll, we might sometimes sense check with journalists as well, before we put out the release and say, "Oh, are you interested in this?" Or, "How could we make this better?" But generally, I find it's not just the sentiment that they're interested in. It's the, what comes next? How are we expecting people to act or to follow this trend and what do we want to them to do with it, and what are the take at home tips as well. 

Mark Jones: 

The fancy word is the zeitgeist, right? 

Mark Jones: 

What's the mood of the people? Where are we at and what's new, what's relevant? What's hot, what's not? And seems to me like you, very intentionally being at the leading edge of that. So, sort of identifying the trends, reflecting that with data and being part of the conversation seems to be like a very deliberate positioning, right? So, there's got to be a lot of demand within the business to make sure that you stay, if you like, current or relevant in terms of research, data. What does it take to actually make sure that you are in alignment with what the organisation is providing?  

Mark Jones: 

Because you don't want to be out front talking about new things that you're not then following through with detailed information or you don't have the guides ready or that sort of thing. How do you make sure that you're on the same page? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Well, everything works back to the business goals. So, we work very hand in hand with other business functions and ask them, what are the goals, what are we trying and do this quarter? Then we'll design a survey backwards from there. We're also in a position now where we've been doing consumer research and really built up a great team in that area for several years now. We've got trend data that others might not have. We've got a good idea of lots of tried and tested ideas — some that haven't worked, many that have — but we ultimately speak to the experts within the business, the people who are writing that content every day or the product manager who designed the app with this vision in mind. Then we try to tell that story by our data and not the other way around. We're not trying to fit it in to the business, we're trying to do it the other way around. 

Mark Jones: 

I think that's fantastic. Just briefly on the short-term versus long term-conversation that that marketers have and CMOs in particular, which is what percentage of our time, effort and budget, resources, et cetera, is on long-term brand building versus that short-term demand generation, customer, et cetera. How do you think about that? Is there a sort of a rule of thumb that you apply in the comms team? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah, that's really interesting because in those earlier days, it was absolutely about the here and now, and a lot of that was consumer PR and more and more and more of it. But in recent years, and even this year, I've moved into my new global role, there is much more of that focus on brand and corporate and thinking about the brand longer term. Beyond that piece in the Sunday paper, what do we want to be achieving PR wise in 12 months' time, and then in three years' time? I have to say, we weren't doing as much of that in the earlier days. It was, you know, every PR hit's a hit. Now we're in a position where we're thinking much more strategically about who we want to be and how we're going to build that trust and credibility, because at the end of the day, that is what it's about. We want to be a trusted and a loved brand, and we want more people to turn to us as they need us. 

Mark Jones: 

What's your guess in terms of short term versus long term focus? Is it 60-40? 

Bessie Hassan: 

I'd say it's 50-50, I think, at the moment. I've moved out of the Australian consumer team now so I'm heading up the global team. I would say it's much more of a current focus within the consumer teams, in my line of work now, my remit is to be thinking more about our reputation and our brand and moving forward.  

Sting 

Mark Jones: 

Now, I want to change tack just for a minute. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Sure. 

Mark Jones: 

We touched on the three co-founders of Finders a bit early, and obviously Fred Schebesta is just an incredible leader, put a book out recently. 

Bessie Hassan: 

He did. 

Mark Jones: 

I mean, that guy has energy to burn, and he has a very strong personal brand, by the way. So in terms of thought leadership, personal brand, he's ticking a lot of boxes of all the things you should do, but I think he's actually mostly just being himself. What's it like to work with somebody like Fred? 

Bessie Hassan: 

It is never boring, I can put it that way. He is a very inspiring leader. One thing he told me very early on was, "If you're not making mistakes, you're not trying hard enough." I think that's really molded my approach in PR over the years. He really encourages innovation and pushing boundaries and just giving it a go. 

Bessie Hassan: 

His book title, "Go live!" is actually one of the Finder values, and "Go live" just means do it. Don't overthink it, do it, and be first and refine it and make it perfect later. Don't miss the opportunity. Finder and particularly Fred have really taught me that because he's all about giving it a go, being first to the party, it's okay not to be perfect, and hey, if you're not making mistakes, you're not trying hard enough. So what more permission do you really need to be yourself? 

Mark Jones: 

One of the, to borrow from the marketing sort of theory landscape, one of the things that really drives brands through founders like Fred is the notion of fame. You can have a brand that is famous and you can have a founder or co-founder who's famous. How have you understood that in your context, and what role do you think fame plays in how you engage with the media, but also some of that brand building globally that we were just talking about? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah, interesting, to put it out there, that word has never ever come up in any meeting or conversation I've ever had internally at Finder. For us, it is not about fame. I think increasingly, it's more about doing good and then having good things to say. 

Mark Jones: 

Yeah. Well, it's another way of talking about brand awareness, right? I mean, that's a clinical, less exciting term than fame. I don't presume to think you're walking around thinking you're famous, but ... 

Bessie Hassan: 

Our jingle is though. 

Mark Jones: 

Well, there you go. How does it go? 

Bessie Hassan: 

(singing) Finder.com.au. There you go. Can I get you to sing it, Mark? 

Mark Jones: 

(singing). Finder.com.au. 

Mark Jones: 

There we go. I can go there. That's awesome, see? So yeah, nobody talks about fame in any kind of seriousness unless you're particularly earnest. But I do think it's fascinating that to what extent you're tracking various ... well, I mean, you did brand awareness studies, brand tracking, all that stuff, right, are expressions of that idea. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah.     

Mark Jones: 

I don't see a lot of brands actively thinking about how they can take a leader through a thought leadership model to if you like the level of fame. There is actually a real reluctance to do that. Anytime we see CEOs becoming famous, quote unquote, it's generally associated with something bad or infamous as opposed to being a really great leader and inspiring person, a disrupter, all those ... 

Mark Jones: 

So what I'm calling out here in the marketing community is a real dilemma, in the comms community, a real dilemma about, well, can we just let someone off the hook and be themselves or how do we control that dynamic? Does that make sense? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah. 

Mark Jones: 

Because he's somebody who's just, he has the ability as a co-founder to really just, "This is what I'm going to do," right? 

Mark Jones: 

But equally, it seems to me just from listening that there's an integrity to your approach, that there's a values alignment and there's a spirit in the place that allows him to be enigmatic, to have that voice. So yeah, I think a lot of brands actually look at that and kind of want it, but don't know how to go there. What would your response and your views on that be? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah. I'd definitely say another Finder value comes into play here. We have a value called "Straight up," and that just means you can be honest and give open feedback without having any fear of consequences. There have been a few times over the years, with management and various Finder crew members where you do have to say, "Hey, there could be consequences here. Are we prepared to go down that path?" We're not a conservative company, so sometimes we do push boundaries and we're happy to challenge things, just being the kind of business that we are. But then as we grow in brand awareness and in following, we also do have much more of a responsibility to our users and to the public and we're acutely aware of that. So it comes down to having that conversation and having some ... not some rules, but some discussions around where you want to play and maybe where best to sit out of. 

Mark Jones: 

Let me jump in there, because you've referenced the values a few times. What are all of them? Because it sounds like you got it. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah, so I've given you a couple. "Straight up" was that one, the one about being honest in feedback. "Go live," just do it, go ahead and do it. "One crew," which means we really act as one team. Regardless of our job description or our function, we jump in, we're one crew. "Master your craft" is another one. We have a $2,000 training budget per Finder crew member which we're encouraged to use every year. We want people to be the best that they can be in their roles. The other one is, "Empower people." That means empowering each other, but more importantly, the people who come and use Finder.  

Mark Jones: 

Values to me are a heartbeat of the company. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah. 

Mark Jones: 

And it allows you to do all the things, and maybe that's another way of answering some of these questions we've been discussing. How do you personally feel about those values, if I can ask? 

Bessie Hassan: 

I have to say it's the only place I've ever worked where I've felt that I do truly live and breathe the values. I'd say that the vast majority of the 500 plus crew do as well. It's ingrained in our culture. They are mentioned day in and day out. You'll have countless conversations throughout the day where at least one of them is mentioned. They've been refined over the years, but these are the ones that resonate. They come up all the time in company presentations, but also those informal conversations. They're genuine. 

Mark Jones: 

So I'm right inferring then that when it comes to some of these strategic and very tactical decisions, it's a touchstone, if you like, for the best way forward. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah. 

Mark Jones: 

They're actively being used as a guide for decisions across the organisation. Is that fair? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Absolutely. So even when we're doing our quarterly planning or whatever it might be, we'll always say, "Well, which one of the values does this tie back into?" In addition to which strategic priority. We make sure they keep us on track, and they really have done so over the last couple of years as well. We've had the countless lockdowns across the country, and they help keep us focused on what's important and where we want to get to. 

Mark Jones: 

I think it's a big struggle for a lot of brands. 

Mark Jones: 

The integrity or the consistency between external public messaging and what our values are and whether we actually really believe them. What's your advice for getting that integrity, that true values alignment from your marketing and your comms through to what we think and believe? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah. Well, with these values, the three founders came up with them. Most of them were in place before I started seven years ago. There were a few extras, but we cut back to the five. I think that ... it's really interesting because if they are genuine values that your team live by, there's a really interesting marketing and comms message and potential in that as well. If you've got people who are living the values outside of work as well, they're inadvertently becoming brand ambassadors for the brand as well. That's absolutely not why we do it, but I think it goes to show the types of people we hire and who we we work with because yeah, they then end up instilling these values outside of work life as well. 

Mark Jones: 

That's amazing. We've had a really fantastic conversation and I think we're nearly out of time, but I just wanted to round that with one last point. 

Mark Jones: 

You touched on being purpose driven as an organisation and then informing consumers and really helping them in their buying decisions and the financial literacy piece, which I quite like as well. What lasting positive, sustainable impact would you like to see, does the brand want to see in the Australian community? Now by that, I don't mean just more people using our services. That's the business side of things. For example, do you have a vision for what a more financially literate Australia would be like? How would you see yourself measuring and understanding what that lasting sustainable impact could be in the community? Have you really, as a management team thought about that at that level? 

Bessie Hassan: 

We absolutely have and we are so passionate about CSR. We want our customers, our partners, our crew, to really view Finder as a true purpose-led business that has a significant impact on the world. We have an amazing head of CSR who I work with to make sure we are delivering on these. Our founders are always asking what else can we be doing? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Ultimately, believe that through Finder, we can help people to improve their financial situations and their lives. We know that some big financial decisions or situations can be crippling for some people, they can be thrilling for others. So whether it's helping someone to get out of years of debt or being there for important life moments, having a baby, buying a house, any of those, Finder will be there as that trusted resource and will always provide the facts. 

Mark Jones: 

It's almost like you've got a long-term longitudinal study opportunity. You know, have you thought about how you’ll follow these people? 

Bessie Hassan: 

Yeah. Look, we are always talking about that. We've got some proof points that we use internally to measure our success in terms of improving those financial literacy stats and things like that. We want, the more that people are engaging with us by our app, we want to see their situations improving. That's very personal and very different per person, but we want to see them in less debt, making more money, and living the lives that they want to. 

Mark Jones: 

Hopefully, if you develop the relationship to the extent where they're happy to share that information in detail over time, you'll end up with some quite unique data and also be in an extraordinary position of having that level of trust with a customer, which again, I think most CMOs and heads of communications would deeply aspire to. 

Mark Jones: 

As I said, it's a really interesting journey to watch. I've really valued your time and your insights. Bessie Hassan, global head of communications at Finder, thank you so much for joining us on The CMO Show. 

Bessie Hassan: 

Thank you for having me, Mark. 

So that was my conversation with Bessie Hassan.  

Bessie's story is a great example of how marketers and communications professionals can work as spokespeople,   contributing to long term growth of an organisation.   

It was  great to hear Bessie's story of how Finder has used independent data and research combined with strong media relations to become a trusted brand.  

I also enjoyed hearing how Finder are championing their users, working to democratise financial products and empower people to take control of their finances.  

Before I go - make sure to "subscribe" to The CMO Show on your favourite podcast app.  

And if you want to hear more from us, follow both The CMO Show and ImpactInstitute on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. 

Thank you for joining us on The CMO Show. As always, it's been a pleasure.  

Until next time.

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