How Ben & Jerry's mix marketing and meaning
Mia Bacarro, Integrated Marketing, Ben & Jerry's ANZ & Asia sits down with host Mark Jones to share the scoop on how the ice cream brand combines emotional connection with social awareness and activism.
The Waring’s Pennsylvanians were on to something when they wrote, “I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream”. And, what was sung in 1925 still rings true today.
Mia Bacarro, Regional Integrated Marketing Manager, ANZ and Asia at Ben & Jerry’s, (soft)serves us more than a taster when it comes to the brand’s salience and their long history as social and environmental advocates.
“We make ice cream but we want to make ice cream so that we can change the world”, Mia says, “We want to be able to build a platform for the things that we believe in and the things that we fight for.”
However, it’s important to recognise that without a solid understanding of social issues, credibility and authenticity may be questioned. Many do not typically equate social awareness with an ice cream brand.
“It requires so much groundwork for us to understand more about the issues that we delve in.” Mia says, “It's really about trying to identify where we could lend the most visibility, where we could use our “ice cream megaphone,” to amplify what the people on the ground are doing.”
At a time where brands are increasingly attaching themselves to ESG initiatives and social causes retrospectively, balancing the combination of brand awareness and social activism is no easy feat. Mia explains that while a brand needs to be led by their values, they need to ensure they’re a profitable business. It may seem like a chicken or egg – or a cow or cream – situation, but understanding that flavour balance is crucial.
“15% of our spend across the world would be dedicated to activism campaigns or social emission campaigns. And the rest is to talk about our fun and flavours and selling Ben & Jerry's,” Mia says.
To get the full scoop on how to develop emotional brand connection, paired with social awareness and activism - take a listen to Mia Bacarro on this episode of The CMO Show.
Resources
You might also like…
Professor John Roberts on Better Marketing for a Better World (BMBW)
Bianca Bryson on emotive storytelling at International Justice Mission
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[Transcript]
Participants:
Host: Mark Jones
Guest: Mia Bacarro
Mark Jones:
There are some brands we all just know.
These are brands that define a whole category.
If you sneeze, you need a Kleenex. If you cut yourself, you need a Band-Aid. Way back in the day you didn’t vacuum, you Hoovered.
Today, if you’ve got a craving for ice cream, you need a tub of Ben & Jerry’s.
If you’re one of these dominant brands, life can be pretty good.
But what if you’re a market challenger? How do you get to the top?
And what about brands with a long history of social and environmental activism?
What comes first – the product, or the values?
Hello friends! Mark Jones here.
Welcome back to The CMO Show.
We’ve got a great episode today, it’s the scoop on Ben & Jerry’s. Our guest is Mia Bacarro, Regional Integrated Marketing Manager, ANZ & Asia at Ben & Jerry’s.
Mia shares the brand’s salience, their campaigns and of course their long history as advocates in the social and environmental space.
Our conversation is a great insight into how marketers can navigate complex, nuanced social issues, and connect with their audience through the power of a successful product.
Sit back, relax and enjoy.
Mark Jones:
Mia Bacarro, thanks for joining us on The CMO show.
Mia Bacarro:
Thanks, Mark.
Mark Jones:
Now, I have a very important question for you. When you tell friends or family that you work at Ben & Jerry's, what's the response?
Mia Bacarro:
It's usually delight. And then sometimes a bit of envy to be honest, I don't usually start with, "I work at Ben & Jerry's."
Mia Bacarro:
I tend to start with, "I work in ice cream." And then they're like, "Cool." And then when I say Ben & Jerry's, I think that's when you see the eyes light up. I'm very proud of the fact that I am part of this company, and I see it in everyone's faces
Mark Jones:
And usually followed by, "Can I have some?"
Mark Jones:
Right?
Mia Bacarro:
Absolutely, "Can I have some. And how much ice cream do you eat on a daily basis?"
Mark Jones:
I ask that because in the brand and the marketing world, there aren't too many brands that really elicit that level of emotional happiness, right. It's a brand that's quite well loved. It's not without its controversy of course, and we'll get to that in a minute in terms of taking a stance on important issues. But from your perspective, and maybe you can thread this into a bit of a career story, but tell me what it's like to be on the brand side and what are actually the challenges of working at a brand where interestingly enough, I imagine the pressure is, "How do we maintain this emotional connection that our brand has with its customers?"
Mia Bacarro:
It's interesting that you've identified the emotional connection bit at the start because I would say that's exactly what drew me to Ben & Jerry's. I grew up in the Philippines where Ben & Jerry's didn't exist until I moved to the US at a very young age. And I think I was about nine years old, grabbed my first pint of chunky monkey, dug into that bad boy and life was never the same. And it is to this day, I've moved away from the US, I've lived in all different parts of the world, and it's still that moment that I remember and hold dear to my heart. When the opportunity came up at Ben & Jerry's, at that point in my career I had been working in entertainment. I had worked at Disney and Warner Brothers, Turner, and I was in the storytelling space. Yes, in the brand marketing side of things but very much about fostering these great emotional connections with consumers.
And when I saw the Ben & Jerry's role, I thought this is a big leap of faith, never been an FMCG. In fact, I wasn't even aware of Ben & Jerry's mother company and its background and history. I just knew that there was something about this brand that elicited a sense of joy and wonder. And then doing a little bit more research, I realised as an adult and as a marketing professional, they found a way to balance this amazing product with an even more amazing set of values. And I think at that point in time, I knew this was the biggest storytelling challenge of my career. Because how do you sell ice cream but at the same time, use that same set of tools to get people to do things, to get people to act on certain causes, to believe in what you're doing not just as a company but as a group of individuals who have a very strong held sense of values.
Mark Jones:
I want to get to the values in just one second but I'm still curious about the brand side of things. The ice cream is great, no question. And there's flavours everywhere. I think you even do a no dairy option as well if my kids are correct. The thing is as you note, how do you sell ice cream? It's a challenging space. It's not like there's a shortage of ice cream manufacturers in the world. In a crowded marketplace, how do you get to that position where you're a cut above or you feel like you're clearly distinguished from your competitors? What does it take, do you think?
Mia Bacarro:
First, I think I credit it to a lot of the innovative flavours that we've put out there in the market in the past 30, 40 years, starting with something like chocolate chip cookie dough. I don't know if you know the history of how that flavour happened but basically, at one of our scoop shops in the US, someone threw in a suggestion in the suggest box like, "You guys should put cookie dough in your pints or in your ice cream."
And that actually came to life and became not just a mainstay of our scoop shops but was sold in packaged pints all across the country and now across the world. How many decades later, it's still number one and it's still very much unique to Ben & Jerry's. Apart from that, I think it's the quirky personality. If you look at this category, you have a lot of very serious brands. I don't know when ice cream became so serious. At a certain point, people thought the fancier you looked, the more people would want to buy you. But Ben & Jerry's, I think on top of having great flavours, great quality ingredients, we wanted to have fun. Delving into the pop culture space, having interesting flavour names, whether it's Phish Food, named after the band Phish, or Tonight Dough, which was a nice partnership with Jimmy Fallon, it's a nod to Tonight Show, down to Karamel Sutra. We really run the gamut in terms of grabbing people's attention with these fun, quirky irreverent names. And I think that's what sets us apart, it's a nice mix of product and personality.
Mark Jones:
Yeah. And look, I think you've also identified a key strategy, which is if everybody's heading in one direction, deliberately go the other way, right. If everyone's going upmarket and fancy, go casual and fun and entertainment. And I think that's an interesting lesson. Then let's get into the consciousness side of things and the social issues. It is interesting at a high level, to consider that this fun brand also cares very deeply about the environment and social causes. And more broadly again, we see lots of companies doing this but it's still just ice cream, isn't it? Connect the dots for me. We don't tend to typically associate that level of social awareness with an ice cream brand. Give me the backstory, why is this so significant?
Mia Bacarro:
It's not just you, Mark. I came into the brand maybe a few years back, not really understanding the connection. And I would say maybe a good chunk of our social media comments would agree with you. We've received similar feedback in how many years.
I think what I've come to understand and really appreciate about Ben & Jerry's is yes, we make ice cream but we want to make ice cream so that we can change the world. We want to be able to build a platform for the things that we believe in and the things that we fight for. And a lot of this really harks back to our co-founders' background, Ben and Jerry back in the day were serious activists.
I don't know if you're familiar with their background but they are your hardcore activists not just in the social justice space but climate justice, racial equality, gender equality. And it's that same tone and appreciation for what corporations can do, at not just a national level but at a global scale and influencing change not just at a consumer level but even at a political level. It's something that we've not just based all of our work on but something we draw a lot of passion from.
Mark Jones:
It very much sounds like it's been part of your DNA from the beginning. In fact, I read an article that I think maybe cheekily described them as ageing hippies.
Mia Bacarro:
They probably laugh at that.
Mark Jones:
And I mean that respectfully too of course, but I think this idea that other brands can come along and attach themselves to social causes almost retrospectively, I think we're starting to see that gets called out a lot and it becomes quite difficult. If you don't have that heritage, if you don't have that origin story which is baked in activism in your case, it's a lot harder to be engaged with credibility or authenticity. Would you agree with that?
Mia Bacarro:
Absolutely. And even when we for example, enter a new market, it requires so much groundwork for us to understand more about the issues that we delve in. We have a strong network of NGO partnerships that guide all of the issues and all of the actions we take. We don't take it lightly. It's not just us picking out of a bowl, all our pet issues of the day or of the year. It's really about trying to identify where we could lend the most visibility, where we could use our what we call an ice cream megaphone to amplify what the people on the ground are doing.
Mark Jones:
Tell me about your challenges then. I'm sure all the commercial challenges exist but equally, when you start speaking out about issues, what's the approach from your perspective? How do you get the balance right? Or do you just don't get the balance right, just make a mess and fix it up later, or what's the approach?
Mia Bacarro:
I'm not going to lie, there have been a few messes. And that's how we learn. But I think the approach has always been to be led by our partners on the ground. And these are the experts in the space. For example, in Australia, we've dedicated the past decade in the area of climate justice. We have quite a few partners all across the spectrum who help us guide not just the strategy but ultimately the comms approach when we talk about a certain issue. In terms of the challenges, not everyone knows that. Here we are for example, spending two weeks trying to strategize a tweet or months talking about a campaign with 5 to 10 stakeholders advising us on how best to use our platform.
I think that when I first started, I have to admit as a natural people pleaser, it was a big culture shock. Naturally as a marketer, you want everyone to love you. You want everyone to be a fan. And yes, we have those in terms of our product but we also have our nay sayers, we have our challengers. But I feel like these people challenge us and constantly make us question how we talk about certain issues or certain things. I'll give you a recent example. We recently launched a campaign called Wipe out Gas here in Australia, together with an NGO partner called Surfrider. In one Facebook post, one copy read, "Our Aussie icons are at risk."
And we are talking basically about gas drilling projects near Australian coastal icons. That use though of the phrase, "Our Aussie icons," generated so much heat as people kept thinking, "What does an American company have to do with the Australia? What gives you the right, what gives you the ability to talk about these things?" Not knowing that there have been years and years of groundwork already done from our end. These are things that constantly challenge us. How do we then continue to write and create content and develop campaigns that will wade through the noise and just create impact? It's a constant work in progress.
Mark Jones:
How do you get your head around not just that issue that you spoke about, which is of course, how do we deal with all these situations that are new and emerging and perhaps pushing the activism together with good old traditional product marketing, or do you see them as one in the same?
Mia Bacarro:
I think we're a multifaceted brand, a multifaceted company. At the end of the day, we are led by our values, but also we want to be able to sell ice cream. We want to run a profitable business. I'll give you a bit of an average. Maybe 15% of our spend across the world would be dedicated to activism campaigns or social emission campaigns. And the rest is to talk about our fun and flavours and selling Ben & Jerry's.
Mark Jones:
I'm sure if there's a really big issue, it might swing more one way or the other but that's a fascinating thing to understand. You've also done a lot of content marketing over the years as a brand. there was a time a number of years ago, content marketing was all the rage as a concept in and of itself. And it almost threatened to take over marketing itself. These days, it's seen as part of the mix, if you can forgive the ice cream pun. And I'm just curious to get your take on that.
Mia Bacarro:
Given that we are a multifaceted brand with so many things to cover, so many issues to talk about but also a lot of things to celebrate, I feel that it is an integral part of our mix. Some of our peer brands, for example will never do organic content. I think it's just a waste of time, waste of effort. In our case, we still dedicate a bit of time, love and effort into creating a robust website for example, where fans can not only read about our products but about the issues we delve in or take action on certain causes. And at the same time, it gives us an opportunity to reach out to different kinds of audiences. You have a Ben & Jerry's fan who will just love us for our ice cream, and that's absolutely fine. Then there are people who become lifelong dedicated fans because of our work in the social mission space. Content marketing allows us to reach both.
Mark Jones:
One of the things that I still see a lot of brands struggling with is which conversations do they have a right to participate in? And you've touched on that, but also really demonstrating that they understand the meta narratives, these big picture ideas that are threaded through their sector and the stuff that quite frankly, their customers care about. And it's easy to get distracted by social issues and forget very simple stuff. If I borrow from the motor industry, the joy of driving for example right, as opposed to an environmental story. How do you think about that? And as a storytelling organisation, how do you make sure that the conversations that you're deliberately seeking to start or perhaps provoke, are relevant and that they're aligned with your strategy? What's the process that you go through?
Mark Jones:
How do you make decisions about the stories that you want to tell? Are you inspired by events in the world? Are you driven by opportunism or perhaps digital insights? How do you pick one campaign over another?
Mia Bacarro:
That's a really good question, and I will have to approach it differently for both sides of the brand. From a product perspective, I think we very much have our ears on the ground. It's about identifying key trends, key occasions, finding the right opportunities to sell the product in a relevant and exciting way. Now, when it comes to activism, we may have certain ideas. And believe me, we have a big diverse team. We have lots and lots of colourful discussions, a lot of which begin with, "My mum told me about this particular issue that's happening down south. I feel like we should talk about it." Ultimately, I think we still have to understand what fits into our strategy. And we are still led and guided by our partners on the ground.
Mark Jones:
What role do you play in that, given the title that you hold?
Mia Bacarro:
I like to say I am the consumers perspective. The way we do activism campaigns in particular, we are led by a social mission and manager. Every country has a dedicated expert in activism who then builds an ecosystem of NGO partners. And they are the experts on the issues, they're able to educate the rest of the team. I'm the practical person in the room going, "I don't think the average Singaporean will understand what you're talking about."
It's not necessarily to be the key dissenter, but just bringing it back to the everyday. Is that really what will move the needle when it comes to this particular issue? Is this really inspiring? Or I think sometimes it comes down to the basics like, "Will our audience even understand it?" And sometimes I think that's a bigger challenge than it seems.
Mark Jones:
Yeah. And the head of marketing has always had that role to be the voice of the customer in those conversations. And I think that's really important. What would you say is the hardest part of that role? Given that you might find yourself in very complex, nuanced social issues, I imagine it's tough to connect that back to a simple story or a simple concept of something being good or bad for example.
Mia Bacarro:
I think the constant challenge for me is not to underestimate the audience but also not to overestimate the audience. There are certain issues that are just so complex. And I come into the room making broad assumptions like, "Is this really something a 22 year old gen Z’er living in the Philippines would understand?" for example. But oftentimes, then I also come at it with a little bit too much faith in the audience. And then you see the feedback come in and it's like, "Oh, we did not make sense at all."
I think especially when it comes to the social mission space, it's finding that right balance of trying to really understand what our audience is able to grasp. And if it's not something they're able to grasp, how do we take them on that journey? How do we help them build up the knowledge, the interest, even the passion and for the things that we believe in?
Mark Jones:
how do you conduct research? You've mentioned social in terms of the immediate feedback you can get from consumers but presumably that's a pretty small percentage of your consumer base.
Mia Bacarro:
Absolutely. We have a brand and health, brand power yearly dipstick studies, which I find extremely helpful, especially when crafting product related campaigns. However, it is quite limiting, right. When you're talking to a broad base and trying to understand what are their purchase triggers, what are their purchase barriers? More often than not, the activism side of things is left out of the conversation. And even if we try to weave it into the conversation, you can't quite see the causal effect, as opposed to talking about product quality and the premium nature of the ice cream, the smoothness or the chunkiness. We could go on and on. On top of that, we do have to do some bespoke studies specifically about our activism work.
Mark Jones:
As you were speaking there, I was reflecting on the consumer mindset. And it is fascinating to me, the psychology behind our purchasing decisions. And I've done a lot of work in the behavioural economic space. We are as humans, quite irrational and inconsistent. But one request that I know that I've had from my kids and my wife is, "Get me some Ben & Jerry's."
I think when you can find yourself in a position of being the Kleenex if you like, of your category, or the Hoover in the old vacuum cleaner days, and we could go on right, have that salience, that's an extraordinary place to be. And I imagine there's a certain degree of care taken not to squander that position. What is the biggest set of challenges that you think are coming for you guys in the next 12 months?
Mia Bacarro:
I think that we can't rest easy on that. Ben & Jerry's global identity and global reputation has taken us to a certain level. And in countries like Australia or Singapore, where we've been around for more than 10 years, we've been able to deepen that relationship considerably with our consumers, by making things a lot more relevant with quirky local campaigns, some of the localised products but ultimately, I think the challenge now is we're also up against some great local brands who can do things faster, who can do things maybe a little bit less expensive, who are able to put products out there in market without as much complexity. 'm happy to hear that your family wants Ben & Jerry's but we're constantly trying to innovate and trying to challenge ourselves to not rest on that. Putting the activism side aside, I think we still need to make the best possible ice cream. And yes, in the best possible way but it's still about maintaining our foothold in these markets.
Mark Jones:
No, that's great. Well Mia, it's been fantastic to speak with you today. And I've loved your insights. It sounds like you've got more than enough to keep you occupied across the region and here in Australia. Thank you so much for sharing your time and insights with us today.
Mia Bacarro:
I had so much fun. Thanks, Mark.
Mark Jones:
So that’s Mia Bacarro. I hope you enjoyed our conversation.
It was really interesting to think about how there is a bit of a trend with brands coming along and attaching themselves to social causes retrospectively.
It’s getting called out now, while brands like Ben & Jerry’s have that heritage, which gives them the advantage of authenticity.
There is a question around what conversations do you have a right to participate in? What stories can you tell that will ensure your brand has credibility? It’s important to make sure you’re across the big picture ideas in your sector and what your customers care about.
A lot to think about there when talk about Impact.
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