Jane Power on long-term value creation
Jane Power, former Chief Customer and Marketing Officer for Bupa Australia and New Zealand talks to host Mark Jones about sales and marketing collaboration, long-term value creation, and compelling storytelling.
For marketers, our primary challenge is todiscover what is the value that will be most appreciated by our brand, ourconsumers and our stakeholders. But how do you shape value in a way thatcreates longevity and raises brand awareness?
Jane Power, former Chief Customer and MarketingOfficer for Bupa Australia and New Zealand, says the trick is partnering withsales.
“Marketing's role when you really break it downis to fill your pond with as many fish as possible. And then sales activationsrole is to try and have a niche that you can catch as many fish as youpossibly can. So you want to convert off the pond,” Jane explains.
In 2018, BUPA launched its “Life is a gift, take care of it”campaign. Jane says storytelling was an integral part in getting the messageto connect with customers, both new and old.
“For me it's probably the most important thing that we do because we'renot selling tubes of toothpaste. With selling services that are primarilydelivered by people, how do you bring that to life? We find the best, mostcompelling way to do that is through stories that are usually told through ourpeople or our customers,” she says.
So how do you make the most of your marketing and form long-lastingconnections with your audience? Jane says you need to use every channel atyour disposal.
“Your role [as a marketer] is to actually advocate for what is best forcustomers and then in turn, your brand over the long-term,” she says.
“It's no point just having a fancy creative above the line campaign. You can't do that week in, week out. You've got to use all the channels, everything at the device. And it needs to be integrated to get the best returns. Collaboration is what we talk about a lot and that's collaboration within the marketing team as well as across the business.” Tune into this episode of The CMO Show to find out how marketing and sales teams can work together to create high-value, long-term results for a brand.
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Got an idea for an upcoming episode or want to be a guest on The CMO Show? We’d love to hear from you: cmoshow@filteredmedia.com.au.
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Transcript
Host: Mark Jones
Guest: Jane Power
Mark Jones: Value creation in marketing. Cultural value, business value, consumer value. If you think about those in a segmented pie, how do you shape it in such a way that you reflect the right value? I think as marketers, our challenge is what is the value that will be most appreciated by your brand, by your consumers, and then internally, because ultimately, that's what's going to last.
Mark Jones: Mark Jones here. The CMO Show is back. Thank you for joining us. This is a really interesting conversation about the future. And by that I mean long-termism versus short-termism. I'm just going to apologise right up front because I think in many episodes we're going to be talking about this issue.
Mark Jones: My guest today is Jane Power, who's Chief Marketing and Customer Officer for Australia and New Zealand at Bupa. She's also the Global Head of Brand.
Mark Jones: It'sinteresting to hear her explain how she's really gone about partnering withsales, bringing in the marketing team, and then exploring this broader idea ofvalue in a long term context. it's a really great conversation and I know thatyou're going to learn a lot from Jane Power.
MarkJones: Jane Power. She is the ChiefMarketing and Customer Officer at Bupa Australia New Zealand. Thank you somuch for joining us.
JanePower: Thank you Mark, for having mealong. Great to be here.
MarkJones: For those of you who don'tknow, Bupa is actually pretty big. 32 million or more customers, 190 countriesaround the world represented. Started in the UK. Here in Australia, aroundabout 4 million customers, I understand.
MarkJones: And spanning aged care,health care, health insurance, and I'm sure you're going to tell us otherthings as well. Right? Anything you don't do. A pretty big deal. Let's justget into this from the brand perspective, because you're the custodian of thisbrand worldwide. What does that mean?
JanePower: At Bupa, we run what we call afederated model so each local market has their own brand strategy, their ownmarketing strategy. It's very much a federated model. Locally, our brandstrategy is centred around what we call a care platform, and we came aboutthat through... Hopefully, as all good marketers do, start very much with thecustomer in mind and did extensive research with customers to talk about whatreally resonated with them. The central theme around what they actually lookfor, from Bupa was all centred around care.
JanePower: And interesting, whether thatwas insurance, which you could argue is quite a rational commoditised, or moreand more commoditised product, through to what's very obviously centred aroundcare, which is our aged care business. But care ran through everything that wedo. That's really how we launched health and care, which is how we think aboutour business. We don't think about it as an insurance business, we think aboutourselves as a health and care company. We see health insurance, which isobviously a huge part of what we do, as enabling care for customers.
MarkJones: Yeah. I think that's animportant distinction. I was going to ask, from a global perspective, how doyou get everybody around that idea? Is it something that you imposedinternally?
JanePower: No, not at all. Each of ourbusinesses, each of our market units, we call them, are incredibly different.Australia through the history, which is acquiring a number of consumer businessesin this market, we're the largest consumer business. So obviously things likebrand is incredibly important locally. In the UK, however, it's much more of aB2B type business. It's grown up through a much stronger corporate B2B typefootprint.
JanePower: But interestingly, as Ilearnt, we were talking earlier about recent trip I just did in London wherewe've had all of our businesses together, I had the opportunity to talk tothem about brand.
MarkJones: Yes, this is a great story.
JanePower: And well, interestingly, theUK business had this fabulous lady who ran wellbeing from HSBC globally, andso we brought a customer into the room, which I always love doing that. Shegave us some really direct, sometimes quite confronting feedback. But what shetalked about, is, yes, she gets... That Bupa in the UK is an insurancecompany, and she gets that she's buying insurance. But it's not what she'sreally buying. What she is looking for is health and wellbeing. And so whatshe's looking to buy is health and wellbeing for the 250,000 employees. Shetalked about how her CEO had put health and wellbeing of his employees as hisnumber one priority.
MarkJones: So you're an enabler for anoutcome?
JanePower: That's exactly right. Itreally made you think differently about, what business are we in? And mychallenge always to the business folk is, you've actually got to thinkdifferently about what it is you're selling. People are wanting to buy healthand wellbeing. That's what customers are demanding from us. Yes, we might beselling health insurance now, but in a world of disruptive approaches toinsurance, that might not be what we're selling in the future. We might beselling any number of payment vehicles. So I just see, you've got to be reallyclear on what it is that people want to buy from you, and then how do youenable that through different vehicles.
MarkJones: As the custodian of the Bupabrand, in that context, how do you make sure that you can grow and maintainthe health of... Excuse the Pun, but the health of that idea, compared to thedemands for sales and campaign activity, right? I imagine for many seniorexecutives in the business around the world, those distinctions might geteither blurred or misunderstood, or just overlooked completely. Does that makesense?
JanePower: Look, absolutely. And I'm sureI'm probably not alone, what we face every day is this very challengingbalance between knowing what you need to do for a business, which is growlong-term brand health and build a business that's going to be here in 10years not two years. How do you balance that with a reality that most of usare incentivised very short-term? That is always a massive source of friction,isn't it? Between marketers and salespeople, traditionally. Because people arewanting leads and they want them now, and they've got KPIs to meet. We're onthe exact same hook for that. I mean, my KPIs are exactly the same as mybusiness stakeholders, but I've also got to bring the cheques and balancesinto making sure what we do is accretive for the brand, and driving long-termbrand health. It is the million dollar challenge that we all face, isn't it?
MarkJones: What's your advice from thesenior stakeholder perspective? We'll get to the salespeople in a minute, buthow do you engage that strategy level, and that brand health level is reallywhat I'm getting at. Because it sounds like you're helping really to directthe CEOs view of strategy.
JanePower: Yes. I think that's beenreally tough, and that's probably why I was really thrilled with the latestField & Binet research, because I do think it has been something thatwe've struggled to quantify in a really robust way. And I tell the story aboutas a marketer, you could be an absolute hero over the short-term and Ritzon'stalked about this, hasn't he, at length. If all you did was digital marketingand you produced beautiful dashboards that made everything measurable, youcould be an absolute hero, and then just disappear to another organisation anddo the same thing for two years.
MarkJones: Rinse and repeat.
JanePower: But your role is to actuallyadvocate for what is best for customers and then in turn, your brand over thelong-term. It is challenging, but I think what that Field & Binet work hasdone, is for the first time, give data which is really what marketing hasstruggled to do, when it has come to brand metrics over the years.
MarkJones: Can you give me an example ofthat?
JanePower: The work they've done, whichI'm sure, most of the audience will be aware, is they've looked at 600 brandsworldwide, and they've looked at all of the sales and performance starteragainst spend and mix of spend and they've shown that against variousdifferent categories what that ideal mix needs to be. if we just takeinsurance for our business, if you think about that very much as asubscription type business, for businesses like subscription overall, your mixneeds to be about 60% spending on brand and 40% spending on sales activation.
JanePower: People can interpret that bysaying that every single thing you do needs to have that mix. That's not whatit's saying. It's saying if you looked back on the year behind you, overallyou need to be hitting that type of mix. I think that's been quite a useful toolbecause it's quite tangible and it's quantified and it's helped me certainlyhave, I think, much more robust conversations with the likes of CFOs, becausethere's data that sits behind that now.
MarkJones: How do you take that modeland split it up across channels and geographies and all that stuff?
JanePower: Yes. Well, that's the trickand that's something that we're just facing into now. We just came out of thisinteresting conversation with my team this morning around. There's going to betimes that are, particularly in insurance for you set example that a peaksales activation periods of time where you want to be owning a space, be itthrough share of voice or your activity, because you know that at that pointin time customers are ready to buy. So you need to be there to convert againstthat opportunity.
JanePower: That is the time where yourbalance might be the opposite, but in other times you need to be in that, whatwe call emotional priming space, which is, I think about it in my language isaround making sure that you're giving customers a really strong reason why toconsider Bupa. If you really simplify it down, what is really the role ofbrand marketing, it is to communicate the strong reason why.
MarkJones: How do you distinguish thatfrom brand awareness?
JanePower: Brand awareness is an outcomeof that, isn't it? I wish we had a brand awareness problem because I think asa marketer it's actually pretty easy to build brand awareness. There's a bitof a playbook.
MarkJones: Going back to a digital.
JanePower: Well, yeah. I think we sit at90% plus brand awareness. Our challenge at Bupa has been our awareness is forus as a health insurer, we have much lower brand awareness for us as a healthand care company. And so what we know is that, when customers and non customersknow the breadth of what we do, so when they know that we have a dentaloffering and an optical offering and we have a therapy service. When they Iknow that they actually feel much more favourably towards us as a healthinsurer, because it starts to talk about the Bupa difference which coming backto where we started is all centred around that care platform.
MarkJones: Maybe we should go back tothat for a minute because I think being able to have a master brand and yetdistinguish these individual products and care platforms is the big thing. Iwanted to have you on, because last year you had this whole messagingdirection around, "Life is a gift, take care of it." And this islong term thinking that you were quoted as saying at the time, it's not acampaign but a company wide focus. Tell us about what it took to get to that,a sense of being able to sell in an execute, if you're like a companywidemessaging platform.
JanePower: I see life as a gift as thetagline. That's sort of the go to market line that we use right now. That mayor may not be something we use forever. But what we're very committed to isthis what I call that brand platform, which is care and so-
MarkJones: Well, sounds like you'veevolved a bit.
JanePower: Yes. I think we definitelyhave evolved. So internally we're starting to think about it as connectedcare. We do that to think about how do we actually bubble up the fabulouspropositions, services, stories and things that we do for our customers. Howdo we bubble that up and get better at telling stories about that asdemonstration of care. Internally we call that connected care. Everything thatwe do needs to ladder up to this idea of connected care. Where that came fromis, it can sound a bit conceptual, but when we talk to customers and if I lookback on the five years I've been at Bupa, every piece of research I've everlooked at, what customers are screaming out for is help in actually navigatingthe health and care system.
JanePower: You see it time and timeagain. It's incredibly complex. This idea of connection we think is quiteinteresting. If you think about what's happening in the marketplaces and thelike, what's that all about? Why are people using marketplaces, be it anAmazon or within an Apple environment, whatever it might be. It's about easeof connection. I think that idea is really interesting for our space. I seethat's how we're evolving, is starting to think about how do we betterdemonstrate connection for our customers, which is about ease and simplicityand value.
MarkJones: There's an interestingtension between wanting somebody to do your homework for you and also wantingto know that I've got choice that I can go and choose.
JanePower: Yes.
MarkJones: There's an interesting sortof conundrum that you need to sort of wrestle with I guess.
JanePower: Yes. That's actuallyinteresting because the campaign that we've just gone to market with thisquarter was all about taking what we felt was the best proposition that ourhealth insurance business had. Which I sort of felt was a little bit of bestkept secret, which was all about the power of our network. That to your pointis all about the insight that customers are all struggling with affordability.If we think about insurance, it's an ongoing issue. They want more and morevalue for what they're paying out. But to your point, they also want choiceand options. And so we've gone to market with this idea around the networkthat we provide, which is all about, giving you lots of choice where it'srelevant to you at a time that's relevant to you.
JanePower: We use this beautiful analogyaround penguins to talk about, you feel better when you're part of something.So beautiful visuals.
MarkJones: Part of a colony?
JanePower: Yes. Part of this beautifulcolonies. That's how we've taken that idea of sort of care and connection tomarket this year, which is the evolution of where we started 18 months ago orso.
MarkJones: Tell me about your view onthe Australian public and how you present your messaging in a way that bridgesthe gap between cynicism and the reality. Because you don't want to be in acase where you're presenting this idea that we care and then people notbelieving you in certain categories. Right? How do you bridge the gap withmessaging? What's the mindset or the strategy that you bring to that?
JanePower: I'm happy to talk about theelephant because it would be naive of me to not do so. We are saying that weare a health and care company and the care is at the heart of what we do. Yes,we've had some challenges in some of our homes. I think what we have to comeback to is, we absolutely have got some things wrong and we are workingincredibly hard to fix that. We also know that the majority of times we deliveramazing care for our residents and our customers. what always gets me out ofbed is when I do come back and remind myself of this beautiful care that wegive. I was watching a little video about a lady that we had in our Pottsvillehomes on the beaches.
MarkJones: Where is that one?
JanePower: Pottsville is in northern NewSouth Wales and she was a world surfer, she's close to 100 and she was one ofthe first female surfers at the time where you did not see women in the surf.She tells this beautiful story about how the blokes used to just do their bestto run her over in the surf. It's just beautiful story with the generalmanager of that home, walking down a beach and just so vibrant and living lifecared for by our fabulous employees in the home. I always come back to knowingthat our intent is to do the best for all of our residents all of the time.Absolutely. We get some things wrong, but we can't shy away from that so Idon’t want to shy away from talking about that.
MarkJones: Yes. No, I agree. I think itreally does get to this heart of what is an authentic story. So you've justpainted a picture of a very authentic story, and people do connect to that. Wewere talking just before about the 60, 40 split and digital analytics, right?So we know that there's a mechanical aspect to marketing. Describe how you usestorytelling as a strategy.
JanePower: We’re selling services thatare primarily delivered by people. How do you bring that to life? We find thebest, most compelling way to do that is through stories that are usually toldthrough our people or through our customers. We have quite a new business, ourBupa therapy business, which is in Victoria. And that business is centredabout helping people with quite complex therapy, Rehab type needs. Quite ahard thing, quite an emotional thing to try to describe and obviously quite aniche play be it.
JanePower: We offer quite a broad rangeof services, but the most successful way that we've raised awareness around, areally small part of our business was through storytelling. And so we have theonly particular rehab machine in Australia that helps people walk again. Andwe had this incredible story by a Melbourne rapper. He was called MC junior.He had a stroke, couldn't walk. And five years on through the efforts, throughhim and the team in Bupa therapy, through rehab. He's now not only walking,but he's back performing, which is just the most incredible story. And so thatfor us was a incredibly authentic and real and heartfelt, which is, that thejuice isn't it?
MarkJones: Yes.
JanePower: When you're talking aboutmarketing, storytelling. But it also was a pretty effective way of raisingbrand awareness of one of our smaller parts about business that is never goingto have the budgets and the lack of health insurance business. So we need todig deep to bring these stories to life.
MarkJones: I think with 4 millioncustomers you've got to have untold numbers of stories. How do you set thingsup so that you can do that consistently? I've seen brand kind of fits andstarts, right?
JanePower: Yes.
MarkJones: The challenge withstorytelling and content marketing and other things is that, how do you dowith a regular cadence, and how do you integrate it into your existing plansas part of an integrated marketing communications plan, as part of a brandplan, how do you just keep it up? What’s your approach to this?
JanePower: It has been a big challenge, Icertainly don't think we've got it perfect as yet, but we reach out to ourpeople for that. We have a mechanism where we have ways in which weeffectively ask our team to bubble stories up through, a little marketinginboxes and things like that. We have a team that every time they're inmeetings with stakeholders, they're asking for stories. What are thosestories? And so we effectively build a pipeline now of those stories. And toyour point consistency is key, right?
MarkJones: Yes.
JanePower: With content. We now arepublishing stories every single week. It might be a written piece of content.It might be a video piece of content. It might be really deep, it might be alittle soundbite, but you're spot on, you've got to be really consistent. Andso you've got to have this pipeline and mechanism to make sure that you'reidentifying them in the first place.
MarkJones: And while we're talkingtactics amplification is the name of the game at the moment as well, right?
JanePower: Yes.
MarkJones: It’s the tree falls in theforest. If you made this video, but no one sees it, what's the point? What areyou doing around that? How do you make sure that people get to see it?
JanePower: We look for just about contentfor a minute. I mean, where we've been, and I think we're many people havebeen, is you have to use paid amplification to get reach. We've done a lot ofwork to now get us in a position where we're getting pretty amazing resultsthrough organic. But it took big capability build, I have to say in the teamand great collaboration between the business to helping us with the storiesand the content team, and the digital team to make sure that you had all thetech and the tagging and the bits that sit behind that.
JanePower: Unfortunately, a lot of peoplejumped, I think onto that content bandwagon. Everyone was building contenthubs and they were being produced by journalists. No disrespect tojournalists. Like that's you need to write great stories, but to your point,no one's ever going to see them unless you get that technical piece right. Andso that's been a bit of a capability.
MarkJones: You sound like you're sayingthat, if you've matured as a whole marketing team to incorporate this intoeverything you're doing, is that right?
JanePower: Yes. That's exactly right.What I’m always agitating for with the team is, it's no point just having afancy creative above the line campaign. You can't do that week in, week out.You've got to use all channels, everything at the device. And it does need tobe integrated to get the best returns. Collaboration is what we talk about alot and that's collaboration within the marketing team as well as across thebusiness.
MarkJones: Let's go back to the shortterm versus long termism conversation. Tell me the story of the analogy or themetaphor that you used when you were speaking to the team in the UK. Whathappened there?
JanePower: Oh, I thought I was donetalking about fish but you’re going to make me talk about fish all over again.Look I had this great opportunity to run these little speed dating typesessions with the sales marketing and service communities across Bupaworldwide. The Field & Binet work had just come out and I thought this isjust a great opportunity to get in front of a set of stakeholders that,traditionally there's always been this tension between short and long termwith sales teams. One fabulous lady in my London team came up with this ideaaround, "Well, let's talk about fish Jane." I was like, "Oh,here we go." And really that was all about, what is marketing's role?Marketing's role when you really break it down is to fill your pond with asmany fish as possible. And then sales activations role is to try and have anet that you can catch as many fish as you possibly can. So you want toconvert off the pond. And so we use this analogy to show what... You canimagine the visuals of we'll make this work in a podcast.
JanePower: Imagine the visual of apicture of a pond that hasn't got many fish in it. And you've got this salesguy with this big net trying to catch fish, but there's not enough fish tocatch. Now what does that lead to? Cranky salespeople, no one delivering ontheir KPI's, right? And so that's what happens when you're not spending enoughon brand building activity, you've got this big net because you're spendingall your money on sales activation, big net, not enough fish to catch. Theflip of that is when you're spending so much on brand building that you've gotthis pond with fish flying everywhere, but you've got this poor little guywith a hook trying to catch the fish one at a time. So you can imagine thevisual with the net, with this little hook on it.
JanePower: That's when you're spendingtoo much on brand and not enough on sales activation. So your net isn't bigenough to catch and convert. They're the extremes and within paint thispicture of when you get that balance right, you've got a big fat full pond andyou've got a net full of fish. Now that is marketing's Nirvana and it's sales,Nirvana, happy people, great, great business growth.
MarkJones: So what does it look likepractically, what's the next stage?
JanePower: This is fabulous. We spend alot of time as I'm sure most of my peers do, talking about loyalty and retentionand we would be the first to admit and we saw it the hard way I think lastyear when businesses are under pressure and you end up with this race to thebottom, don't you around offers and price and that's sort of the symptomsisn't it? Of a business moving towards commoditisation. And I think we've seenit in lots of different industries.
MarkJones: Supermarkets are great forthat stuff.
JanePower: Yes, exactly. And I certainlythink... We went there last year and we in response to I think a bit ofanxiety around numbers and business performance, we went really hard above theline on offers. And our customers told us pretty directly that just quitefrankly pinged them off. And so we did a piece of research to really validatethat that was the wrong tactic. And what it showed is that, you had all thesecustomers that are saying, I have been with you for 25 years, but you're goingto give more to a brand new customer then you are to me. I spoke to an eightyyear old, a customer this morning that had been with us for 35 years. I lovedoing that. We do detractor calls, all the execs do ‘detractor calls’ everymonth and somebody said, he has I been with you for 25 years and what are youdoing for me? That's the right question. I do think-
MarkJones: So demonstrating value iskey?
JanePower: Yes. Demonstrating value iscritical. And also back to that balance question, you also got to think about,are you investing enough in your customers as you are acquiring? I think wetilted the wrong way. So we're doing a lot of work and I think with thebenefit of marketing tech stacks now and data and modelling, you can be a lotsmarter around how you do that then probably where we were even five yearsago.
MarkJones: We've just spanned like allthese incredible topics. One after the other. Before we close and wrap it up,how do you engage competitively?
JanePower: I think the risk for theinsurance categories, is it goes down the path of insurance more broadly,which has become very commoditized. I think comparators certainly drive that alot. I think the opportunity there for us is to make sure that we are givingcustomers and non customers, a pretty compelling reason why. I think that isabout being much more proposition led in what we're doing.
MarkJones: So better value?
JanePower: Yes, better value is anoutcome of better products, better propositions. Because I think if you'rejust going to compete on price in insurance category it's all coming down togold, silver, bronze. So it's moving-
MarkJones: My gold is better than yourgold.
JanePower: Yes, that's exactly right.That's a pretty rational conversation, right? Whereas as marketers, we know inorder to win, you need to have much more emotional connection with customers.If all you're doing is fighting-
JanePower: ....in the sand pit aroundwhether it's a red spade or a blue spade, we all know as an industry we're allgoing to lose. I think being very proposition lead. And I think our first sortof evidence of that is the, the campaign I referred to this shit. We want todo a lot more on that. And we are very, very customer led. We've got prettystrong HCD capability-
MarkJones: HCD?
JanePower: Human centred design.
MarkJones: Of course.
JanePower: Of course another bingo foryou. So we really looking at what are customer's expecting from us and thenhow do we respond? And as I said, what is the one thing they're looking for?They want to buy health and wellbeing. And so we've really got to think about,well, what does that look like for us and how do we meet the needs of thecustomers into the future in a world where if all we're doing is sellinginsurance, we probably won't be where we are.
MarkJones: I know that it's difficult toquantify. If I go with Bupa, I'll be healthier. It's very hard to quantify aclaim like that. Right?
JanePower: Yes.
MarkJones: But it seems to me that'swhat you're alluding to it, it's a better quality of life outcome is that?
JanePower: Yes. That is the message. Butit also, they might be, if you're ill, chronically ill, it's making sure thatyou feel supported and cared for, which might actually though just be aboutconnecting you to the right provider at the right price in the right location.
MarkJones: So better service?
JanePower: Yes. Better service. Becauseyou can't kid yourself, we can't make the Australian population healthier, wecan't do that on our own.
MarkJones: No.
JanePower: I think the days of marketerstelling customers what to do, like get healthier or jump higher, I thinkeveryone's pretty fatigued by that. Let's not kid ourselves. We are an enablerfor that. That's all about to your previous points about CX, isn't it? So whatis the experience we can create for our customers to enable them now... Whatyour goal might be around being healthier might be completely different to me,to our moms, our dads. So know the customer in a deeply personal way. And thenpersonalise that proposition to them as best that you can in a scalable way.But I think, at least from a marketing point of view, we have such anopportunity to personalise the messaging and the way we talk to them and theway that we serve up our products and services. That's our opportunity.
MarkJones: Thank you so much for beingour guest.
JanePower: No, thanks so much for havingme. I've really enjoyed it.
Mark Jones: You know, it's interesting as I've been reflecting my conversation with Jane, on short-termism via the digital channels and how we can make a big splash. What value does it create in the long term? When you get into that, I think actually the issue, and I've talked to many people about this lately, and forgive me because I always talk about storytelling, but she did say that they're publishing stories every week. And that getting that story right and creating a compelling, emotional story is the number one thing that's going to make a difference.
MarkJones: It's just amazing the moreand more we dig into that idea just how much resonance it has from so manydifferent angles. Whether it's how do you do it in a digital context, or howdo you do it with a big picture, long term idea in mind, and one that meets allthese different stakeholders that you're trying to satisfy.
MarkJones: Storytelling is a strategy.And being able to connect, the different types of value for your culture, andfor your business, and then for the consumers. Finding that angle and doing itreally well is becoming, I think, one of the biggest lifts we have to pull inmarketing and as business partners, as strategists in the business is reallyowning that piece. So it's great to hear her speak about how she's been ableto do that at a global level, and then draw outcomes in the local market.Mark Jones: Ihope you've enjoyed it as much as I did. I'd love you to share the show. Ialways say this, but thank you for sharing, for commenting, and telling yourfriends about us. It means a lot to us. We're having a great time, and I hopeyou continue to enjoy the show, until next time.