Move fast, make things with Head of Growth at Up
There’s a famous saying in disruption land – “move fast and break things.” With trust an increasingly critical differentiator for growth-minded organisations, how do you instead move fast and make things?
On this episode of The CMO Show, we chat to Seb Neylan, Head of Growth at Up about all the trials and tribulations of being a challenger in the financial space, as well as how to really hone in on your audience when the time comes.
We know authenticity and consistency build trust. When organisations show up over and over again for their customers and meet them where they’re at, real and lasting connections can be built.
As a modern-day disruptor, how can you build products with trust at their core?
For Seb, allowing customers to shape workflows at Up is critical.
“We use our customers to help inform our opinions, our thinking, our ideas. We don’t work in silos. We stay transparent with what we’re doing and what our solutions are,” Seb says.
“We keep that dialogue open so as to not break that trust. We keep a constant level of transparency, openness, and dialogue – it's really important to us.”
That sense of focus means Up isn’t interested in using its platforms to tear down established products and brands. According to Seb, growth comes from time spent building trust and their customer base, not being worried about establishment brands.
"We’re not focused on the big four [banks]. We’re focused on our audience. The next generation of Australians, redefining money for them,” says Seb.
“It’s exciting because we can carve out our own area in Australia. If we feel like there’s value for how Up can help young Aussies with money, we can pursue that, and we have the freedom to do so.”
Jump right into this episode of The CMO Show and learn about how Up is moving fast to make – not break – new experiences, one activation at a time.
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Credits
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The CMO Show Production Team
Producer - Pamela Obeid
Audio Engineers – Ed Cheng & Daniel Marr
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Transcript:
Mark Jones:
There’s a famous saying in disruption land – move fast, and break things.
But we like to mix things up here on The CMO Show, so here’s a new one for you. What about “move fast, and make things?”
As a modern-day disruptor, how do you build products with trust at their core, but perhaps more importantly, how do you build a brand without tearing down others in the process?
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Hello, Mark Jones here, thanks for joining us on The CMO Show.
The CMO Show is a podcast made for and by marketing leaders, created by ImpactInstitute, and proudly supported by Adobe.
Now, we know that authenticity and consistency build trust.
When organisations continue to show up for their customers, it’s a no brainer that this is where real connections start to build.
I’m very excited to introduce Seb Neylan, Head of Growth at Up.
Seb has been with Up since July of 2020, and carries with him experience in brand, growth, and digital products across multiple countries.
We chatted about all the trials and tribulations of being a challenger brand in the financial space, and focusing on your audience where it truly counts.
So let’s jump in to hear about how Up has revolutionsed the banking industry, one funky activation at a time.
Hello and welcome to The CMO Show. My guest today is Seb Neylan who is head of growth at Up. Thanks for joining us.
Seb Neylan:
Thanks, Mark. It's great to be here.
Mark Jones:
Now, I'm really interested in having a chat with you in part because you've got a really interesting background, previously worked at Lonely Planet and MYOB, and you've got a bit of an advertising and also an academic background. So I want to chat about that because I think your experience is interesting. But I also want to talk about the sector that you're playing in because Up of course is a neobank. For those playing at home, what's a neobank?
Seb Neylan:
It's a sort of digital challenger bank, and in the case of Up it's 100% mobile.
Mark Jones:
What attracted you to that as a place to work?
Seb Neylan:
Well, it's interesting. Like you mentioned, Mark, I guess my journey to get into the FinTech industry was a little bit varied. started out agency side, working in advertising, and then found myself crossing over client side to the travel and tourism industry working for a brand that I loved in Lonely Planet, adored those years. It took me over to London and a bit of time in the states. And when I was in London, I got exposed as a customer to some of the challenger banks over there at the time, such as Monzo, which has achieved some scale now.
And when I got back to Australia and was wanting to shift over from one of the big four banks, I actually became an Up customer. And then after a little bit of time at MYOB, I ended up working at Up and then found myself in the position as head of growth.
Mark Jones:
So one thing that strikes me then is that if you want a job, become a customer first. Is that the sneaky trick there?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, I think it helps a lot if you are a marketer because it comes back to empathy and understanding what customers want. And if it's a brand that you're personally passionate about or you're personally used yourself, I think it's much easier to understand the motivations of what led people to using that brand or using that product.
Mark Jones:
Describe for me the sort of person that uses a neobank? And we're sort of getting into persona territory here and I feel like interestingly maybe you're describing yourself a little bit.
Seb Neylan:
So I guess, look, in the case of Up and our customer base and how that's representative of that sort of persona that you're alluding to, we're almost on the cusp of hitting a million customers in October, which is really exciting for a brand that's only been around in for six years, almost six years in the Australian market. But around 50% of our customers are Gen Z and around 35% are Millennials. So there's obviously a youth skew to our audience, which comes with a certain level of digital nativeness and quite a bit of tech savviness who are grown up in a social media or post social era.
And so I think that kind of inherent tech literacy is really important, especially with something like Up where it's a hundred percent mobile and very technology focused. But I think beyond that, it's also just about a lot of the neobanks in particular, Up, we're trying to really carve out our own brand and our own personality that's very distinct to the Big four and some of those kind of big institutions that we grew up with.
Mark Jones:
What do you reckon the Gen Z and Millennials think about the big four? That's a tricky question given the NAB connection.
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, in the case of NAB, they have Ubank in their family and there with Up we're part of the Bendigo Bank family.
I think there's just some inertia around it. You've kind of done it because that's what your parents use. Maybe when you got your first job you were taken into one of those branches and you set up your first account. But I think just they haven't kept pace necessarily with the changing behaviours of young Australians and whatnot. And so I think when you have a type of consumer who are using apps like Spotify, Instagram, TikTok, Strava, et cetera, the sorts of smarts that are built into those kinds of apps, I think that's what people come to expect from the different apps that they use. And that's the sort of space that app wants to play in.
Mark Jones:
And I think that's a really good point because that's where I was headed with this is there's a sensibility for want of a better term that is threaded through all of those apps and services that you just spoke about. So you want to match that, but you also want to surprise and delight people in really interesting ways. And the assumption here is that a neobank can do that in different better ways than a traditional bank. And I imagine that that's in part just because you're smaller, there's less bureaucracy.
Just tell me about that. What's the mindset that is really essential to making that work from a customer perspective?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, look, I think the interesting thing there, what you mentioned is Up is essentially, it's a bank without bankers.And I think what's interesting there is one piece of that is efficiency and ease. And that's something that a few of the neobanks here in Australia do well, and that's a key part of Up.
But I think what's really important, what we focus on is trying to go beyond that, efficiency, ease, utility. That's one thing and technology can help with that, but if you're wanting to really have an impact and cut through with the generation, you need to make the experience genuinely enjoyable and memorable. And that's something that we really focus on leaning into moments where we can delight, surprise, and bring a bit of whimsy.
Mark Jones:
A fun joke that I've enjoyed musing on over the years is that banks essentially are technology companies with a banking licence. So this has been true for the big four for the longest time, when you think about the innovation, when you think about the transformation and the scale of the technology that they employ. So it's kind of funny because it's true, right?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah.
Mark Jones:
But the interesting thing about your point around we don't have any bankers, that will appeal, I think as a messaging line to the Gen Z's and the Millennials. Maybe older Gen X's like me would have a question which is like, "Well, what's the risk of that? What's the downside? What are you missing? What lessons have you not understood from decades and decades of the way financial work just at that level?" We're not even talking about regulation and all the rest of it.
Seb Neylan:
And I think that's a great question and that's probably where our partnership with Bendigo comes in as being a really important and valuable one. They're the most trusted bank in Australia based on Roy Morgan metrics, and they have this sort of great community-centric ethical element running through their brand. Up has been partnered with Bendigo and utilised their banking licence since the beginning. And I think there's sort of a good level of trust there between the two entities and hats off to Bendigo for supporting us in our journey and some of the slightly quirkier and crazier things that Up has done in a marketing sense.
Mark Jones:
All right. So you've got friends in financial services. It's like, "We're not bankers, but we've got experienced friends." That's the short story there, right?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah. I think it helps to have expertise you can draw on as and when need be. But I think the interesting thing there like I mentioned is a lot of the people who have been inherent in the building of Up and constructing it, they haven't come at things from a banking perspective. They've come from different industries such as media and fashion and design. And so I think with that becomes this first principles design led thinking, which is tricky to find in the banking industry in Australia.
Mark Jones:
Yeah, no, I agree. Tell me then about your role as Head of Growth because it obviously points to the outcome of your work rather than the marketing bit, which is traditionally speaking, the tactical doing bit. Let's just start there. How do you think about your role?
Seb Neylan:
I've always personally been interested in mission driven brands, hence you mentioned previous time at Lonely Planet. And I've enjoyed being locked into a larger mission and being adjacent to creative and passionate people, people who are more creative, smarter, more passionate than me. And I think what I love about that is then helping them to wrap what they're doing in strategy and ultimately have an impact.
We have a very sort of product led marketing strategy. So we have goals, we have targets, we push. And I love that and it motivates me, but I think because that is all sitting underneath and within a mission-driven brand, you're making decisions not purely dictated by the numbers, but the fact that in our case we want to redefine money for the next generation of Australians. And so I'm always keeping that top of mind with whatever sort of channel I'm doing and holding that alongside the monthly, quarterly, yearly numbers that I'm focused on and wanting to hit.
Mark Jones:
As an agency guy, I'll also celebrate the lack of timesheets that are in your world right now.
Seb Neylan:
No, that's certainly a fantastic part. And having a three-year-old toddler, I'm not missing the late nights of agency land and not working in London anymore. I'm certainly not missing the international time zone calls.
Mark Jones:
Well. But the serious and meaningful, I think you touch on impact and I think we can understand that through a couple of different lenses. One is obviously the experience of working there and the way that customers perceive your product in terms of their lifestyle and the flow on effects if you like, of using the product. How do you sell that? Because I think this is the growth thing that I'm interested in is that it seems to me to be a marketing and sales role. Is that fair? So two-part question, are you doing marketing and sales and how are you selling impact?
Seb Neylan:
I think what's interesting about just the key setup is my title is head of growth and I sit within the product organisation. So we are being very product-centric and thinking about things from our app as our core offering. That's the thing that I'm needing to grow the user base of that, but I'm also needing to sort of ensure that the people who are already customers are having a fantastic experience.
It's kind of that thing if anyone is a fan of Andrew Chan and some of his work around growth loops, not funnels, we're a really big proponent of that and I love that model of the best marketing tool you have isn't a paid lever, it's actually the product itself and making that really delightful. And so something we've had from the beginning, but I've worked really hard to further optimise is using our customer base as an advocacy channel.
So about 80% of our new customers come from recommendation. About half of that 80% is from our actual referral program. But then the other half is from word of mouth. And we know that from things like in-app tracking and surveying.
And that means we really leaned into things like custom merch giveaways, exclusive events for customers and some quite out there promos like our per cup weekday promotion where we give around about 4,000 free coffees to outsiders per month for free, automatically cash back throughout the app. And it's like those sorts of things where in other orgs it might be hard to justify the ROI of that, but we can really draw a red thread from those sorts of initiatives back to our advocacy metrics, which then goes back to our growth numbers and CPA.
Mark Jones:
For the listener, CPA is cost per acquisition.
Seb Neylan:
Cost per acquisition, yep. And in the banking industry that's usually three figures.
Mark Jones:
Right. So what is your cost per acquisition?
Seb Neylan:
It's well under $50, which we're pretty proud of in our industry.
Mark Jones:
Right. And the growth loop that you spoke about because I've heard of it, but I don't know it in detail. Effectively is that just saying that our strategy is focused on word of mouth marketing as a byproduct of delighted customers, advocates, and the way that they perceive our brand? Is that right?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, exactly. That's one piece of it. And then I think the other piece of it is focus in areas that can have a compounding effect. And one of the great things for instance about you mentioned the word of mouth piece, but our referral program, which in the early days of Silicon Valley people like Uber, Airbnb and Dropbox do a really good job of is if you are sort of optimising for a channel like that, you're often referring in, say, one person who's then referring in one or two other people who are then referring in two or three or four other people. And you have these really nice compounding effects.
So I think that's the two parts of those growth loops is that one is being product focused, but two, you're looking for areas which can have this exponential impact rather than say just focusing on the conversion rate of paid search or something like that. As a challenger bank, that's not a game we're going to win some of our competitors like the biggest companies in the country. We're not going to outspend them. But if we can be different, if we can be interesting, if we can have a engaged and powerful community advocating for us, that's where we can build a moat.
[STING]
Mark Jones:
It’s interesting to hear how Seb breaks down the different bits of a feedback loop.
Referral programs only work if you’re providing your customers with incentive to do so, and I think it’s safe to say that Seb and the team at Up are providing one hell of an incentive.
What I really want to know is how Seb’s creative mind works. How do you keep it fresh, and how do you keep people interested?
Let’s see what he has to say.
Mark Jones:
So in your role, it sounds to me like you're going to spend some of your time with product and product marketing people and you're going to be looking at data in a really interesting way. What's the role of creativity then in all of this? How do you do something new and interesting? I imagine there's only so many times you can throw vouchers at people.
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, no, exactly. And that's the thing. I think what's unique about us is apart from my team, the growth team who look after a lot of that marketing side sitting within the product org, our in-house brand and creative team also sits within the product org. They don't sit separately. So what's really nice about that is even when we do some of those more acquisition-focused things, they often have this sort of, we work in tandem with our in-house creative team. Their team name is Soul, which I love. And their whole idea is to give an idea a soul, and to give it a bit of spirit. more acquisition-
Seb Neylan:
Some of those more acquisition-focused efforts like our Hook Up A Mate programme obviously sort of still feel fun and interesting and have a bit of a flavour to them. And then if you go to the other end of the spectrum where we're sponsoring things like activations of music and arts festivals, that's where we can really stretch out and do something super creative. And I'll work in tandem with that team to make sure that even though we're really pushing the buck in a brand sense, we're also just thinking about how it might tie back to elements of our product and elements of our brand. And just a good example of that is there was a recent very big arts festival in Melbourne called Rising.
It's a little bit like Vivid in Sydney and we essentially brought to life one of our features called Hi-Fi in a physical space at the festival and had DJs playing there and financial data on screens and the walls all alive around the booth. And so some people would just be like, that's bonkers that you'd spend money on doing that. But that was a PR play for us and it was strategic.
Mark Jones:
That sounds like how to impress creatives and geeks at the same time.
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, that's pretty much my MO and my job at Up. Be friends with geeks, be friends with the creative.
Mark Jones:
There we go. We nailed it. Are you a creative geek or a geek who's creative?
Seb Neylan:
I think I sit in between the two. I like working with both and there's plenty of geeks, plenty of creatives, and definitely some unicorns who are a melding of both at Up.
Mark Jones:
I actually think we've hit on something pretty interesting there because there's a lot of talk, not so much these days, but historically around disruptors and neobanks being disruptors and so on. I don't know that that's actually the best way to think about it because in many cases, and certainly for you guys, it seems that you are creative in the sense of how can we do something better?
What if we got rid of traditional constraints and thought in different ways? That's an inherently creative process whereas the disruptive narrative is we're out to break things and we're out to tear down the big four in the case of financial services. I just don't know that that old legacy thinking is as relevant these days as maybe this creative narrative that you're putting forward. Is that a fair description of what's going on?
Seb Neylan:
No, absolutely. I'd agree with that. I think we've gone past that era. It's that sort of thing going from move fast and break things to move fast and make things. And I guess from my perspective, there's three key things there to do that well because you do still need to move fast if you're a challenger, but it's just about being a little bit more collaborative and thoughtful.
One, just really keep your finger on the pulse with customer sentiment. We have feedback from our talk to us feature in the app, which gets piped into a Slack channel. Everyone in the company can see daily in real time, and we read that and absorb that sort of customer sentiment and sort of softer qualitative feedback. I started today doing that. But then the second bit is you sort of need to pair that with the quantitative feedback, with the behavioural data, with those pointier harder tech metrics and combine those two.
And then I think once that informs your opinions, your thinking, your ideas, it's about not working in a silo and it's about actually then being transparent with what you are doing, the solutions you're coming up with your customers and having that dialogue with them and not breaking that trust. So for us, an example of that is our product roadmap. The Tree of Up has been publicly available on our website since Up started for everyone to see even our competitors. You can go to that right now and see what we're building. And I think having that sort of level of transparency, openness, and dialogue is really important.
Mark Jones:
That's a really great segue because the other question that I've been reflecting on is the broader narrative that the big four don't see you as a competitive threat and that the broader Australian population tolerate, but are not all that fussed about neobanks as a long-term competitive player. What's your take on that narrative? Is the thinking correct?
Seb Neylan:
I think at the end of the day, we're not focused on the big four. We're focused on our audience. The next generation of Australians redefining money for them. And what's interesting about that is obviously we touched on before how we have a partner in someone like Bendigo Bank who can give us those good foundations, but we're not necessarily following the business model purely of a traditional bank.
For example, we recently introduced a subscription rogram which is still in early access called Up High, and that's sort of a subscription type model is almost more akin to what you might see with streaming services, with the video, audio. And I think what's exciting for me is that the types of revenue streams we can have as a business. Some of those might live in traditional banking world, but there also might be others where if we feel like there's value for how it can help young Aussies with money and it sits in a completely separate area or stream, we will pursue that and have the freedom to do so. So I think that's exciting because we can carve out our own area in Australia.
Mark Jones:
Yeah, it's really interesting. And you would know from your agency background that the ideas of sentiment underlying narratives and belief systems that customers have are something that you've got to take into account when developing strategies because you've got to help them overcome those natural inhibitors to a decision. And it sounds like you guys are playing the long game.
What then is the long-term strategy around customer experience? Because it would seem to me that's where you'll continue to rise or potentially fall if the experience, if it's digital only, if you screw that up, there's all sorts of downside to follow, right?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, no, absolutely. One of the things I'd point to there is we speak about this thing of being digital when we can and human when it matters. And there are definitely instances where we even as a technology company lean much more into the human side. You can essentially jump into the app, send a message to one of the people in our support team, and you can chat to them on WhatsApp or Messenger and get a really speedy response.
And when it comes to things like say, payment abuse, scams, fraud, things, bad experiences happening with Facebook marketplace that's where we really lean into the human side of things. And so I think for us it's about technology is an enabler. It's not the answer.
That's why we still do things like custom merch and create clothing that we send out to our customers and key rings and all these sorts of things, which just kind of bonkers for a bank. But I think keeping that human element at the core is probably the most important thing for us. We have this vision of multiplayer banking and the notion that if all these other elements that have become "social" whether that be your media consumption, your fitness apps, your audio, why can't money be social?
And so we are leaning into a lot of features in that kind of space. About a couple of years ago we launched our take on joint accounts called Two Up, which was the idea that you don't have to have a house, have a dog and be married to have a joint account, you should be able to spin one up with someone you're dating and then spin it down if it doesn't work out. And so our extension of that will be in November when we're going to look to launch a feature called Groups, which would be for share houses or bands, or sporting clubs.
And we think you should be able to essentially spin up a sort of shared space to pull your money, spend it, split it just as easily as you can on those social media platforms. So that group's feature is a really exciting one for us.
Mark Jones:
Gosh, there's some stories there that I want to tap into at some point. You've got to get some customer case studies of how that worked, particularly like the Share House thing. All right, house meeting. Okay. So there's lots to play with there. What's next? What are the biggest challenges on your radar? What can we expect? Got any campaigns in the offing? What should we be keeping an eye on as we watch you guys continue to do really creative interesting things?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah. A couple of things that we're excited about coming up. Obviously, there's that one million customer milestone and really that's not so much about us, it's about celebrating our community. We're going to really lean into that towards the end of the year. Something we annually do, which we take a bit inspiration from Spotify, is we essentially do an annual personalised wrap up of your money spend for the year with things like the biggest purchase you've made and your spending habits. And we have a bit of fun with that.
So we do that every year and keep some stuff the same but reinvent it. So that'll happen in December. We think of it like it's a bit of a love letter to outsiders, to our customers where we try and have a bit of cheeky fun about it. So that's a good one that comes around. And then pretty much in January and February, something we always really focus on is that's kind of a really a natural moment, new year, new me when people are like, "All right, I'm going to get myself into gear." And we usually sort of really focus there on, it's an opportunity to encourage people and motivate people to be like, "All right, if you've got some savings goals, this is the year to do it. This is the year to try and get on the right path for your financial wellbeing."
So that's usually just a period in the year when we're really active and we speak about some of our really unique saving features there like our Save Up 1,000 game and things like that.
Mark Jones:
I'm also curious about the role of AI as you start to really adopt some of these technologies, how are you going to incorporate that into the dynamic aspects of analysing people's spending and ability to save and all the rest of it?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, it's a good question and it always comes up in any of the interviews around with Up. And I think it's one of those things where our CEO often mentions this where with buzzwords and trend technology. It's like on the one hand we having a lot of internal conversations, a lot of internal exploration about that, but we also don't want to just jump to the solution mode straight away. I think it's important about understanding what the capabilities that things like machine learning and AI represent and specifically thinking how could that be of best use to our customers and our business.
For us, our first initiative there has been more in that scams and fraud prevention space and really trying to, for example, identify payment mules and things like that. So there's some really exciting stuff.
Mark Jones:
Yeah. But if I think about the Gen Z and millennial mindset, , there's a lot of conversations and focus around, "I'm a young person, this is how you could make money. This is how you can succeed. You should invest here, or you should do this particular tricky thing. Or maybe you really need to follow my 10 steps to success."
There's a lot of that sort of stuff going on. I imagine there is an appetite in your customer audience for tell me what I don't know about how to make money. It's a very proactive machine-led expectation that you're smarter than me, show me how to make money. Is that fair?
Seb Neylan:
I think what we want to do is give people the tools to easily manage and get on top of all things related to money, so that essentially they don't have to think about it. We don't play in the space of finance bros and crypto and that sort of thing. Our actual view is that if we can offer a seamless and smart experience, that can mean people don't have to think about their bank and don't have to think about money and can be set up in such a way where the anxiety around money is gone, then they can sort of live the life that they want.
I think that's the true sense of financial wellbeing. We speak a lot about, it's not about wealth generation, it's about how people feel about their money. So just an example of that is we have a feature we launched around this time last year called Hi-Fi which is all around getting a sense of your financial wellbeing score. And so we do a personalised automatic survey, which gets triggered to you in the app around every couple of months. And it has some questions around, "How are you going with your money? How are you feeling about your money? Let's reflect on this."
And the idea is that you get a quantitative score, which doesn't have a dollar sign in front of it, and we want help lift that from, say, a median score of 55 to 90 or 95. And it's that sort of, I guess financial wellbeing and the sentiment piece, which is more important to us than just the pure wealth generation piece.
Seb Neylan:
And so, I think we're confident that we can achieve the mission that we're wanting to, but there's definitely still a few goals to hit before we get there.
Mark Jones:
That's the sentiment for customers. You want people to feel confident about their finances. You want them to fgeel confident in using the platform. It's a sentiment piece that really seems to be the heart of the experience through the app and any other touchpoints with the organisation. Is that fair?
Seb Neylan:
Yeah, exactly. It's that thing of we want people to feel good about money and confidence is a part of that, competence is a part of that, helping people to develop healthier habits. and have a warmth, have a sense of fun, inject a bit of enjoyment into this experience because money doesn't have to be so transactional. It's embedded into every aspect of life.
Mark Jones:
Last question. Marketing is from the outside exciting. The day-to-day is full of challenges and difficulties, and struggles of all types. if you bring your wisdom perspective to all of this, what advice would you give to your peers? How can they overcome the inevitable challenges on this journey that we're on?
Seb Neylan:
You have your up and down days for sure, and I think especially when you're in a growth or a marketing role, there are targets, there are timelines. There's all that sort of thing. Look, I always just encourage my team, be empathetic and be optimistic. I think having empathy helps you to be a better leader to your team, helps you better understand where your peers might actually be coming from, especially when you might not see eye to eye. And empathy helps as a marketer to actually understand where customers might be coming from or why they might be motivated.
And then optimism, I guess, that's a core part of who I am, and I think that when things are particularly trying at work or the world in general, obviously, cost of living here in Australia at the moment, global conflict abroad, all that sort of stuff. I have this belief that optimism doesn't have to be about head in the sand sort of toxic positivity. It can simply just mean sort of focusing on the good, focusing on the exciting stuff, exuding that outwards to people. And if you can help through that, create a bit of a spark in others, that's a good thing. So I'd just say be empathetic, be optimistic.
Mark Jones:
So that's a great note to wrap up our conversation for now. Thank you so much for joining me on The CMO Show.
Seb Neylan:
Thanks so much for having me, Mark.
Mark Jones:
That was Seb Neylan, Head of Growth at Up.
If there’s one thing we can take away from this, it’s the power of ignoring distractions and instead focusing on your audience.
For Up, that’s the next generation of Australians looking to refine what finance means to them. Who is your audience? How can you reach them?
If you tap into your creative geek skills, you’re halfway there.
You’ve been listening to The CMO Show, created by ImpactInstitute and supported by Adobe, and I’m your host, Mark Jones.
We’ll catch you on the next one – thank you for tuning in.