Redefining health and life with AIA’s Stuart Spencer
We’ve all seen it—the relentless images of “perfect health” that make wellness feel like a distant dream. But what if there was a different way to think about being healthy?
In this episode of The CMO Show, AIA CMO Stuart Spencer invites us to shift our perspective on health. With a career shaped by resilience and a mission to democratise wellness, Stuart shares AIA’s vision to transform health in APAC and empower individuals to find their own path to wellness—no six-packs or salmon salads required.
Stuart’s journey is one of commitment and courage. He's navigated personal challenges like becoming a dad during the GFC and tackled the ingrained myths that keep so many from embracing wellness.
At AIA, he’s leading a purpose-driven shift, redefining life insurance as a platform for true health and life transformation.
Join us for an inspiring conversation - a deep dive into AIA’s mission to make wellness accessible, inclusive, and achievable for everyone across Asia.
You might also like:
Adapting to the age of Chief Multipurpose Officers with Nine, Adore Beauty, and LEGO
Adobe Digital Report 2024: Trends shaping our digital experience
Credits
####
The CMO Show Production Team
Producer - Pamela Obeid
Audio Engineers – Ed Cheng & Daniel Marr
####
Transcript:
Mark Jones
In marketing, many of us want to do something big and meaningful, change the world. We've all heard the stories, but what if you actually did? What would that look like?
Hello, Mark Jones here. How you doing? So great to have you with us on the CMO Show. We're going to go macro. Actually, we're going to get quite specific at the same time. My guest is Stuart Spencer. He's the group CMO and member of the group Execo at AIA, and he's coming to us from Hong Kong. Stuart is a guy with a really big picture vision for what AIA as an insurer can do to change people's lives. This is a fascinating story about somebody who, for the longest time, has been both a big picture visionary and someone who cares about the detail of marketing, how we need to really focus on measurement and progression towards our goals, but never losing sight of why we're doing it.
He's also somebody, by the way, who survived the financial crisis, and it hit home really hard and in an important way that forced him to evaluate whether his family or his job was more important. It's an amazing story. Let's get stuck into it.
Stuart Spencer, group chief, marketing officer, and member of the group Execo at AIA joining us from Hong Kong. How are you?
Stuart Spencer
I'm great today, Mark. Thank you so much for having me.
Mark Jones
It's an absolute pleasure. Now, one of the things that I'm really fascinated by when I look at your impressive resume and the different organisations you've worked at over the years, I'd just love to know what makes people tick. So quite clearly, you've had a passion that's driven you to succeed. You've got a real interest in what you're doing. Just from a leadership point of view, tell me about some of those drivers. We can unpack maybe some of the different parts of your career, but just tell me about the thing that really gets you up in the morning.
Stuart Spencer
Thank you. Great question. I've always been driven to try and have a macro impact to make a sustained lasting difference, to do a career, to have a life that's driving transformation that is unhinging the status quo. I have found insurance as an industry, life and health in particular, as a tremendous vehicle for good, a tremendous vehicle for progress. AIA is systemically so vital in the markets in which we operate. I have a passion for driving inclusion, financial inclusion, particularly in emerging markets. I spent four years in Latin America before moving to Asia, and I saw with my own eyes the difference that insurance can make, the power of risk transfer, and the ability to provide a brighter future for those for whom we cover.
I believe that in Asia too today with low levels of penetration of insurance, and such a huge upside potential for the entire industry, we can do so much lasting good in this part of the world. That's what really drives me. That's what really motivates me, the power for change, the power for financial inclusion, the power to really extend the reach, the scope and impact of our industry. I feel incredibly privileged to be in my position at AIA. We believe we do lead our industry. We believe our size, our scale, our presence, the number of customers that we possess, the number of businesses in which we operate. Our valuation give us a tremendous footprint, a great advantage. For me, it's a great platform to do good.
Mark Jones
Tell me about the connection point between wanting to do good and thinking, "You know what, I'll do it in insurance. Don't worry about the going for a charity or any other sector." You and I both know how insurance can do well or can help people in the world. But in your words, connect the dots for me, because it's not an immediately intuitive connection for some people.
Stuart Spencer
Sure. I accidentally fell into the insurance industry. I didn't have any profound aspirations to be an insurer. Like most people in this industry, I think we fell into it and became very passionate about the power, the force, the dignity, and the positive impact on society that we can make. I started my career as a marketer at American Express, and I learned the intricacies of financial services marketing for a premium brand at a young age. I was well-schooled, and I learned well. It was a privilege to be part of AMEX during that time in the '90s, particularly when we were facing the card wars and people cutting up their cards, and really trying to substantiate why we were charging membership fees in the highly disruptive world of fee-free credit cards, but I yearned for more, Mark.
I wanted to be international. I wanted to make a greater difference, and AIG called. AIG at that time was the parent company of AIA. That started... That was the launch pad for me for what is now a 20-year career in AIG, AIA out and back again. I was tapped to lead some marketing services company within the framework of AIG, but I felt like if I'm going to be at AIG, I need to get into the core business. I need to learn insurance. I need to be an insurer, and let me apply my marketing skills into the realm of insurance, and see how that goes.
We were looking for answers. We were looking for direction. We were looking for, in a way, a way to better define ourselves as an enterprise. And so we undertook a process when I returned to understand how we were being seen, what were the perceptions in the marketplace, how were we being understood or quite frankly misunderstood by consumers, and so forth. And we realised that we were very much synonymous with health and life, obviously. But that was quite frankly, the most robust and potent sort of identification and association for AIA. And at that time, we were calling ourselves the real life company, and nobody really knew what that meant. And a lot of people confused the real life company as AIA saying that all the other life companies were fake and we were the only real one. And there was also a lot of misattribution of the real life company.
So, we looked deep into ourselves and said, what do we stand for? What matters to us? Where are our revenues generated? What products do our customers have? How do our customers see us? How do they understand us? What do they think we stand for? And then what do we think really matters? What fundamentally differentiates us, sustains us, and what's it really at the core of our DNA as an enterprise? And it was clear, we arrived at healthier, longer, better lives because we looked deep inside. We were institutionally introspective, and we went through a long process of eliminating potential distractions and really honing in on the core raison d'etre for us as an enterprise.
And that's how healthier, longer, better lives emerged in early 2018. And that now is the north star. That's our purpose. It's not a tagline, it's not a slogan. It is a very kind of, in a way, solemn, noble, lofty position that we are taking, that we want to lift people up and enable everyone across Asia to live a healthier, longer, better life, whether they're our customers or not. And this drives, dominates, motivates, accentuates, everything that we do as an enterprise.
Mark Jones
Stuart, quite clearly you're very passionate that there's a through line between some of the experiences you had and the story that you just told around the purpose for AIA.
What have you learned through those set of interconnected experiences? And how are you applying that to this next growth opportunity? And by that I mean, across Asia-Pacific, the opportunity to help more people through insurance. There's clearly a large gapAnd I'm interested in, as a leader, how are you bringing that to life through the lens of this very strong purpose story? Is the purpose story the fact that we are the real deal? If I'm to grossly summarise the brand positioning. We are in it to help people. Is that the story that you think is really going to give you the ability to grow and to move forward? Or is there some other aspect of your strategy that you think will allow you to grow? What can we learn from how you're thinking?
Stuart Spencer
So, AIA operates in 18 markets with 40 million customers across Asia-Pacific. In an environment where the proliferation of lifestyle disease, non-communicable diseases, is at a fever pitch. We're looking at risk factors and the associated diseases that go along with it, that are crippling Asian economies. And it's quite frankly, out of control. We see that lack of exercise, poor diet, smoking, drinking, pollution, and stress are driving cancer, diabetes, stroke, chronic lung disease, heart disease, etc. I talk about Asia getting wealthier, but not healthier. So, these are choices that people are making through affluence, but also lack of education and lack of motivation to make change. That's the essential backdrop. Meanwhile, the industry has always focused on death, dying, fire, brimstone, fear, consequences. And so we've taken a very different approach.
We recognise that given our exposure, given the risk that we underwrite, that we need to be fundamentally engaged and intrusive to shape customer behaviours so that people can lead a healthier, longer, better life and emerge out of and reverse the trends of these lifestyle diseases.
Mark Jones
Help me understand how you tell this story across different markets, and I think probably more relevantly, different cultures and the context shaped by different nations. That's, I think for us as marketers in APAC, these differences can be very easily minimised. We think, "Oh, they're just different markets. We'll tailor our message and we will use the right language and be done." I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that.
Stuart Spencer
There are very sophisticated nuances which we need to adhere to. So think of it as the overarching umbrella is our commitment to healthier, longer, better lives. And we believe that that has resonance unequivocally across language, across culture, across geography. What we've asked our 18 businesses to do is to really navigate their own expression locally, culturally, linguistically using local nuances, local personalities, local imagery, to really accentuate their realisation, their encapsulation of what healthier, longer, better lives means in Thailand, versus Hong Kong, versus Vietnam.
But we give the markets assets. We give them tools that we believe have universal application, but also have the opportunity for local market customization. And so we find the right balance between standardisation and customization without in any way losing the essence of AIA. So it's unmistakably AIA. And if you go to any AIA business, you will see clear brand consistency, but you will find different amplification and expression that resonates most profoundly locally. And that to me is the optimal... It's the optimal mix. You want the assets that have broad application, but you have local amplification that makes sense for that business.
Mark Jones
So when you think about where you're going from now and you think about that, really, what do they call it? A big hairy, audacious goal, right? A billion.
Stuart Spencer
Yeah.
Mark Jones
let me just jump in here for a minute, and say that it's quite extraordinary to hear a story like this where Stuart's been on a really long and quite difficult journey, and it's just wonderful to start hearing some of those ideas come through as he shares how he processed that. What I then wanted to know is tell me about bringing that to life across the regions, because in particular, APAC, as we all know, getting it right in different countries is quite hard.
So, how do you go from that personal story and the macro vision into the detail?
Mark Jones
How do you know that you are getting there?
Stuart Spencer
387 million by the end of 2023. So we've got so much of it being digital, easier to track. And what we have done is in our ESG Report, environmental, social, governance, the S and our ESG report is really hinting on our engagement through AIA One Billion. Sitting on the couch, having a bag of crisps, watching Spurs lose to Crystal Palace doesn't count. What does count? Don't get me started. What does count is somebody getting up off the couch and saying, "You know what? I'm going to put the chips away. I'm going to try and think or do or be somewhat different and lead a healthier lifestyle. And so we've got assurance through PWC that work intimately and intricately with all of our markets where we are calculating and we are de-duplicating. Because what we're doing is we're trying to get a billion unique individuals, not engagements. So we actually have lots of engagements because individuals can have multiple engagements.
All of our businesses have AOB as the centrepiece of their marketing, AOB Day where we're driving community activity. So it's a way to galvanise and mobilise and get people to move under the umbrella of our Healthier, Longer, Better Lives commitment. And nobody else in our industry is doing this. And we are very exacting in our measurement, in our calculations because we don't want to exaggerate and we want it to be truly precise. And that's the bar that we have in effect set for ourselves.
Mark Jones
What's interesting as a point of reflection for you is that in all of your responses and the way that you think about things, you're able to take large, complex sets of ideas and simplify them and create them, this one or two sort of key points. In marketing, we often get distracted by detail, and you're not short on detail, you're not short on data. What do you think the listener can take away as a point of inspiration? How can you hold intention, the detail as a CMO, you're responsible for people who are executing and working towards all sorts of detailed KPIs, and then at the other end, this sort of big picture. How do people hold those two things, intension? What have you learned and that you could share?
Stuart Spencer
That's a great question. I fondly tell the guys that I sort of masquerade as a marketer, that I'm actually an insurer and have been schooled in the technical side of what we do as a business and in an industry. So I started as a marketer, I became an insurer, and then I'm sort of masquerading as a marketer again in an insurer's body. And I've been exposed to the paradigm of the lover, the thinker, the dreamer, and the warrior. And I think as a marketer, you've got to be a dreamer, and a lover, and an inspirer, and a motivator, and a visionary. And you have to unhinge yourself from the status quo. And you have to anticipate and look around the corner. And you have to be passionate about the industry that you're in. You've got to believe that where you are is part of a journey that you can always innovate, change, do better, think of what comes next.
But at the same time, you want to focus on marketing for impact. As marketers, we're tired of the bean counters in the organisation challenging us on the impact that we have and the value of what it is we do. So I'm maniacal about measurement. Find ways to measure, even if there are no ways to measure, find ways to measure. Don't let any stone go unturned to find a way to quantify the dimension of the impact that you're having, that, "If we hadn't done it, this wouldn't have happened."
Stuart Spencer
Now, we've done a lot of research and we recognised and we learned that so many people across Asia, Mark, are inhibited to embark in any personal pathway of health and wellness. People see health and wellness as being unachievable, unattainable, too difficult, and too expensive. Consumers are inundated and they're bombarded by the images of what healthy is supposed to look like, particularly on social media. That six-pack in the gym at 6:00 AM. That salad with salmon on top. And the stereotypes and the beautiful Adonis that we all look at and we say, "That's never going to be me."
So what we've learned is, "That's never going to be me," holds people back because it's a very narrow, non-inclusive depiction of what healthy is. And at AIA, we have embarked on an effort to get everyone across Asia to rethink healthy
Walking the dog, reading a bedtime story to your kids, saving for a rainy day, using a plastic bag at the supermarket. Healthy actions that we undertake that we don't give ourselves credit for because they don't conform to how society has defined health for us. And we want to debunk this. We want to dispel the notion that that one depiction of health that you see on social media is it.
Mark Jones
I'll tell you what I just heard, Stuart, you want people to believe in their own version of success.
Stuart Spencer
We want people to undertake their own personal pathways to achieve health and wellness. Yes, that's exactly what we want to do, Mark.
Mark Jones
But they're standing in their own way.
Stuart Spencer
Social media is so powerful. Societal forces that depict a certain way is so powerful that people need alternative depictions to unhinge them from their own status quo and embark on their personal journeys. They need to be liberated, they need to be motivated, they need to be determined. They need to be able to see that so much of what they're currently doing is actually healthy, but they're giving themselves no credit for it
Mark Jones
As marketers, it seems to me that this is the level of customer insight that's required to enable change. What would you say is the hardest thing about bringing these ideas to life from a CMO lens?
Stuart Spencer
The hardest thing is truly to be able to shape mindsets, drive cultural change, trigger behavioural change, resonate so that you have a sustained impact at scale without breaking the bank to do so. That's why we want to use unconventional approaches to triggering, catalysing, endorsing dialogue, conversation, chatter where people see, "Can you believe what AIA is doing? Wow. Good on them for taking a stand. They're right. Surprisingly, an insurance company is taking a stand on an issue like this. Who would've thought?" . And somebody tells somebody and then somebody tells somebody and then somebody tells somebody. That's where I'm trying to get to
Mark Jones
And forgive the blatant brand marketing reference because we're talking about such a big picture here, but you have picked a defensible position in the market.
Stuart Spencer
We believe so. We believe we're advocating for people who need advocacy, who deserve an alternative view of what healthy can be.
Mark Jones
For many brands, it's actually hard to find that sweet spot. So that's why this conversation's interesting again at another level, is that you've found that one sweet spot that is in some senses, a little bit niche, but actually scales across cultures and regions and all the rest of it. So, genuinely fascinating.
Stuart Spencer
This has been a great conversation. I'm so grateful for your time.
Mark Jones
Thank you. It's been wonderful to meet you.
Mark Jones
Stuart Spencer, thank you so much for being my guest on The CMO Show today.
Stuart Spencer
Pleasure.
Mark Jones
And to you and your team, thank you very much for making this happen. It's been wonderful.
Stuart Spencer
Thank you.
Mark Jones
Thanks for joining us. That was Stuart Spencer. What a fascinating story. What about this idea that you see the opportunity to move countries, possibly make a lot of money, but then put your family first? For me, that's a big deal. I really can resonate with that as a father. More broadly in the marketing context, one of the biggest takeaways for me is how you can think about a very common problem we have in marketing across AIPAC, which is localization. How do we understand culture, story, and all sorts of nuances at an individual country and regional level? It's not an easy thing to do, but it's vital if you want some of these big picture ideas to really take hold.
So, the clarity of messaging really stands out in terms of this vision that AIA have, and then the degree to which they keep going after that detailed analytical approach at the ground level. Holding those two things in tension is hard, but this seems to be an organisation that's really got its eye in around making all of that work. So, that brings this big episode to a close. Thanks for joining us. The CMO Show is a podcast proudly brought to you by Impact Institute in partnership with Adobe. We are a podcast for marketers by marketers. I hope this show has encouraged and inspired you in all sorts of amazing ways. Until next time.